Jay's Racing Alternator relocator kit

[daniel Dee]

For those running a fluidampr
Dayco 5040420 polycog fits perfectly and long enough to take off and on.

[Mike Schmid]

The stock alternator is right, I mean right, beside the DP and o2 housing.  I've measured on my car 1300*F in the DP at a cruise, furthermore, any air other air in the area is potentially coming through the FMIC, AC condensor the radiator and picking up heat the whole way.  Another issue here is that most modified cars on this forum with modified exhaust do not have the lower heat shield over the 02 housing or any shielding on the DP which are all present on a stock car and really do work.  Now realize that the alternator draws 'cooling' air through the back (right next to the O2 and DP) where the wires go and then past the armature and out the front.  Also realize heat has a very real affect on resistance in an electrical device and that resistance limits current and voltage.  The alternator depends on the free flow of electrons to make the current and voltage it needs to output.  Another thing is the electronic components of the alternator, like the voltage regulator, are usually what goes bad and are not replaced with OEM quality pieces on parts store alternators, which also explains the difference between the prices or a Lordco/NAPA alternator and a Mitsu one.  It's no secret that electronic components are sensitive to heat and die with too much of it.   

So considering you're probably dealing with a sub-OEM alternator on a car with little or none of the OEM heat shielding it should really be no surprise that you can see a measurable difference between having the alternator completely heat soaked in the stock position versus being located in a much cooler part of the engine bay. 

[Remi Raymond]

The stock alternator is right, I mean right, beside the DP and o2 housing.  I've measured on my car 1300*F in the DP at a cruise, furthermore, any air other air in the area is potentially coming through the FMIC, AC condensor the radiator and picking up heat the whole way.  Another issue here is that most modified cars on this forum with modified exhaust do not have the lower heat shield over the 02 housing or any shielding on the DP which are all present on a stock car and really do work.  Now realize that the alternator draws 'cooling' air through the back (right next to the O2 and DP) where the wires go and then past the armature and out the front.  Also realize heat has a very real affect on resistance in an electrical device and that resistance limits current and voltage.  The alternator depends on the free flow of electrons to make the current and voltage it needs to output.  Another thing is the electronic components of the alternator, like the voltage regulator, are usually what goes bad and are not replaced with OEM quality pieces on parts store alternators, which also explains the difference between the prices or a Lordco/NAPA alternator and a Mitsu one.  It's no secret that electronic components are sensitive to heat and die with too much of it.   

So considering you're probably dealing with a sub-OEM alternator on a car with little or none of the OEM heat shielding it should really be no surprise that you can see a measurable difference between having the alternator completely heat soaked in the stock position versus being located in a much cooler part of the engine bay. 

 Exactly.

 My last turbo car (Celica with a 3s-gte engine) came from the factory with cold air ducting for the alternator It ran down from the side of it and clipped in to the undertray/splashguards so that it could draw cool air from under the engine. Was the coolest little attention to detail, and I never replaced that alternator.

[daniel Dee]

I have a Bosch alternator rebuild I could test in the stock location...
Oh heck,,, I could probably run two alternators at the same time.

Update,,,, My welded alternator bracket is breaking again....I have the new Jay's bracket which
isn't giving me much confidence... I would like to copy this in steel...
Does anybody have access to an laser cutter (for 1cm mild steel)

I have invited Jay to respond to this on our forum...

[daniel Dee]

Reply I got was
"The new bracket we sent you was redesigned to deal the this material fatigue issue that some experience.  Please understand out of the hundreds of kits out there, less than 10% have experienced these issues.  Per our CFD analysis these are 12 times stronger in the highest fatigue area. "

[Matt Fredrikson]

10% is totally rediculous way to high of a fail rate to be marketing that product, I'm sure I could make one up at my shop if I had one to copy

[John Hartman]

thats why they have redesigned it.  They are not Greddy or someone like that, they are a couple of guys.  And for that matter, the one from Buscher is way worse.

I would wait and see, but MK2 would seem to be better.

PS, tell JayRacing to sign up with someones real name or they probably won't be approved.

[Ryan Coft]

actually i was a bad panda and i approved it anyways. Curious to see what they say regarding the bracket seeing as a few of our members are curious as they are running them.

[JayRacing]

Hey guys, this is Jay White from Jay Racing.  I have a BS in Engineering and that sharp inside corner was due to relocating the spotface on the bracket to make these more symmetrical/visually appealing.  It was my mistake and we've been honoring that fault on parts that were installed years ago.

Since, we've run FEA static linear stress & fatigue analysis on these parts.  And like Daniel's mentioned we've revised the design and alleviated this issue.  We could make these from steel, but the stresses aren't really that high, it is more a mode of cyclical fatiguing than dynamic failure.   This could be caused by a number of factors and I think deteriorated crank dampeners, unbalanced engines, and engine harmonics play a large role.

As always, I look forward to reading more of you guys' thoughts on the subject.

Jay White
Jay Racing
937 248 7846

[Ryan Coft]

Thanks Jay.

So for guys like me who are running large cams on a motor without balance shafts with a fluidampr harmonic balancer, and i just purchased the kit 4-ish months ago, we shouldn't see this issue at all? Even running solid prothane motor mounts which (when paired with said cams) tend to have nasty vibrations throughout the car, if the motor is balanced well we shouldn't see any adverse effects?

Here's to hoping it's all fixed up and i don't have to worry about my alternator falling off or disconnecting while driving. Not sure how long my red-top will run the car and that's an expensive towbill.

Thanks,
~Ryan

[daniel Dee]

So for guys like me who are running large cams on a motor without balance shafts with a fluidampr harmonic balancer, and i just purchased the kit 4-ish months ago, we shouldn't see this issue at all? Even running solid prothane motor mounts which (when paired with said cams) tend to have nasty vibrations throughout the car, if the motor is balanced well we shouldn't see any adverse effects?



Thanks,
~Ryan

Exactly my situation,,,,,,My alternator vibrates (small) at idle..
The bracket will not break at once  so you should be able to make it home ...
(lots of belt squealing)...My updated bracket is installed so we will hope for the best...

Dec 21/2008 Update bracket still holding car driven 3 days/week

[daniel Dee]

I think sometime in March /09 the new generation bracket began to crack and was replaced by the prototype
shown here...

This one snapped completely off today with very little warning...
I always check the alignment to see if it is bending ,,,so it went from being aligned to busted...

[Matt Fredrikson]

Still made from Alluminum? I could fab one up out of steel for you to try I don't see how it would break then.

[Mike Schmid]

A steel one would probably solve the problem.  Do you have a good close up pick of the break?  If it's real rough looking it's a fatigue fracture which is one of the big faults in aluminum (Al).  Al has no safe fatigue limit, so when you subject it to repeated loading like vibration or a back and forth flexing motion it will break, it's just a question of when.  Fillets and soft rounded edges will enhance the life span while sharp corners will shorten the part life.     

[daniel Dee]

I like to thank everyone for offering their services in fabricate this piece...
Someone (Anthony ??) picked up my broken bracket pieces from RG for fabrication.

And Jay's Racing picked up a steel one (from their manufacturing) and is sending it as we speak..

Does anyone else with Jays Racing Alternator kit drive their DSM  3 or 4 days weekly?