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daniel Dee
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« on: February 21, 2009, 06:06:19 PM » |
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Where makes the best race manifold with decent spoolup?  ?? |
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92 AWD TSI 5spd
Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 650cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold. 530 AWHP street boost 666 AWHP race boost (RG Dyno 2010). Coilovers
90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec
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Chad Giffen
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 06:13:58 PM » |
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1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost
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Ryan Coft
Administrator
Hero Member
 Offline
Posts: 1913
Currently: Under the knife
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 03:11:14 AM » |
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Nice site, great info.
I'm going with the jmfab drag manifold, but that's just my opinion. The numbers don't lie but a 4.9% variance is decent compared to some other manifolds.
Depends on your turbo size too, if you ran a 20g then anything running 5 liters of intake manifold space is overkill and will create excessive lag. Whereas it would be ok for a gt35r or bigger
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daniel Dee
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 12:28:15 PM » |
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I'm finding hard to see the difference between JM fab RACE and JM fab DRAG.....except the $160 difference in price.
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92 AWD TSI 5spd
Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 650cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold. 530 AWHP street boost 666 AWHP race boost (RG Dyno 2010). Coilovers
90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec
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Chad Giffen
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 02:19:20 PM » |
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ya there's like no difference.
LOL....
Just a larger plenum volume really, which is good for larger turbos.
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1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost
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Lowell Foo
Senior Member
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 780
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 09:46:42 AM » |
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I'm finding hard to see the difference between JM fab RACE and JM fab DRAG.....except the $160 difference in price.
The drag manifold has a rounded plenum. |
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92 Laser AWD, 50 trim, 494whp
92 Talon AWD, 50 trim, 11.55 @ 127mph w/ 399whp.
90 Talon AWD, 11.40 @ 123 ~ 10 years ago. Currently in storage.
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daniel Dee
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 08:57:41 AM » |
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Tubes (intake) runners are too long....A rounded or tapered plenum is required to dampen returning impulses from the combustion chamber... Its well documented ...
I'm sure its works for with light mods but the thread is about Sheet Metal Intakes.
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Logged
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92 AWD TSI 5spd
Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 650cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold. 530 AWHP street boost 666 AWHP race boost (RG Dyno 2010). Coilovers
90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec
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John Hartman
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 08:58:11 PM » |
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not only that but short wide runners make power, long skinny ones don't.
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91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd. quickest and fastest pump gas 14b in BC? now -12/Tial equipped
91 Eagle 2000GTX 5spd awd. great handling 87octane daily driver. Compomotive, exhaust, cams.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km. Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs etc, bone stock,203awhp/238tq
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Kristopher Rozon
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 03:06:26 AM » |
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Tubes (intake) runners are too long....A rounded or tapered plenum is required to dampen returning impulses from the combustion chamber... Its well documented ...
I'm sure its works for with light mods but the thread is about Sheet Metal Intakes.
Or you can take advantage of the returning impulses to force the air through the open valve at the right time, but that takes far more skill than most vendors and fabricators in the aftermarket  So on this topic, have you come across any data on DSM metal intakes? I've been trying to find specs and it's amazing the little amount of quantitative data available. |
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Kristopher Rozon
2002 Audi allroad 2.7tt, stoptech 332 Ferodo 2500, yak rack, thule evolution 1600
1999 VW Jetta TDI
- Germans take a stupid idea and refine it to where it works beautifully. Americans take a brillant idea and cheapen it until it sucks. Italians make it beautiful, but might not work. Brits make it ugly, and it might not work. Japanese copy what works.
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daniel Dee
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 07:43:28 AM » |
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I have come to form an opinion... Some of it based on my experience with building v8 strokers.
Large plenum should help a stroker as the initial intake pulse is strong and the piston is accelerating rapidly away from TDC...
Short runners should have help too but hurt spoolup....
Large long runners maybe 7 inches should give the intake charge more velocity and widen torque.
Closest manifold to this is Beyond Redline SMIM....maybe add a 1/2 spacer to this...
Take a Magnus street intake and add more plenum to it...
I think spoolup has more to do with part throttle torque than anything...so keeping the manifold, turbine and downpipe temp up is important ....
Also turbine a/r ratio tuning is important in this aspect. I will be working on this but it will take some time..
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« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 07:47:27 AM by daniel Dee »
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92 AWD TSI 5spd
Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 650cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold. 530 AWHP street boost 666 AWHP race boost (RG Dyno 2010). Coilovers
90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec
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Jason Harwood
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2009, 09:50:29 AM » |
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Longer runners = more torque.
This is all I know.
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88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 96.71MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
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Kristopher Rozon
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 12:32:16 PM » |
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I've been experimenting with timing at spool and found dumping a load of advance ( <-- sounds dirty ) to aid in spool just makes the car feel like a wet noodle with the turbo whistling away. Boost but no power. I'm going to put the car back up on the dyno and load it down at 4000rpm to bring back some tq.
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Kristopher Rozon
2002 Audi allroad 2.7tt, stoptech 332 Ferodo 2500, yak rack, thule evolution 1600
1999 VW Jetta TDI
- Germans take a stupid idea and refine it to where it works beautifully. Americans take a brillant idea and cheapen it until it sucks. Italians make it beautiful, but might not work. Brits make it ugly, and it might not work. Japanese copy what works.
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daniel Dee
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 07:32:33 AM » |
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I've been experimenting with timing at spool and found dumping a load of advance ( <-- sounds dirty ) to aid in spool just makes the car feel like a wet noodle with the turbo whistling away. Boost but no power.
To aid spooling you need less timing and rich a/f while building boost... This is tricky, cause you need enough timing to get the whole sequence going. |
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Logged
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92 AWD TSI 5spd
Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 650cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold. 530 AWHP street boost 666 AWHP race boost (RG Dyno 2010). Coilovers
90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec
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John Hartman
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 08:28:25 PM » |
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but then once its started to spool, you want to get right back to the regular tables so it actually makes power  I find that a simple way to have nice throttle response is to have a fairly lean cruise and tip-in fuel map. Not sure if that works with huge ass turbos (Dan) but it helped tons on my cars. |
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Logged
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91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd. quickest and fastest pump gas 14b in BC? now -12/Tial equipped
91 Eagle 2000GTX 5spd awd. great handling 87octane daily driver. Compomotive, exhaust, cams.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km. Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs etc, bone stock,203awhp/238tq
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Lowell Foo
Senior Member
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 780
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 01:32:59 AM » |
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Even better is to optimize the hardware. On the 50 trim, my 3rd gear dyno pulls build 20psi by 3760rpm. The tubular O2 housing, header and 4" intake tube were the major improvements here. Another point to mention is that even with the same boost pressure, the header makes more torque over the Kinetic cast manifold due to wastegate placement. Any turbo system that doesn't vent all cylinders equally will be less efficient.
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Logged
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92 Laser AWD, 50 trim, 494whp
92 Talon AWD, 50 trim, 11.55 @ 127mph w/ 399whp.
90 Talon AWD, 11.40 @ 123 ~ 10 years ago. Currently in storage.
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