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Kristopher Rozon
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2010, 02:56:06 AM » |
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Thanks for clarifying and adding the tech  I should not have written that as a logical argument but rather stated in words what I was trying to say which was boost is the inability to ingest the air. So another way to have quick spool is to have a very inefficient engine. Then you need to look at why it's inefficient bringing the finger back around to point at the turbine housing and wheel. Anyway that's my layman's understanding of it. |
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Kristopher Rozon
2002 Audi allroad 2.7tt, stoptech 332 Ferodo 2500, yak rack, thule evolution 1600
1999 VW Jetta TDI
- Germans take a stupid idea and refine it to where it works beautifully. Americans take a brillant idea and cheapen it until it sucks. Italians make it beautiful, but might not work. Brits make it ugly, and it might not work. Japanese copy what works.
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Chad Giffen
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2010, 01:44:32 PM » |
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another way to have quick spool is to have a very inefficient engine this makes no sense. I fail to see the point you are making. I think you should think about what the efficiency of an engine really means...... it's not relevant for boost explanation anyways that's for sure.... anyways that's getting off topic for what this thread is really about turbochargers increase the engine efficiency by harnessing the normally wasted energy in the exhaust gases. I'm guessing your argument is that if less piston work was done, more kinetic energy would be left in the exhaust gases in terms of HIGH temperatures which would accelerate the compressor wheel faster. But why would anyone want to make the engine less efficient in the first place  That defeats the purpose of a turbocharger entirely.... and as the for the combustion process..... well that's an entirely another story.... |
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« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 01:51:26 PM by Chad Giffen »
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1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost
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Jason Harwood
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2010, 05:41:10 PM » |
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When I had my AF's running @ 14.7's my car spooled faster. When it was running rich, it dogged into boost. I can see what he means by efficent engines boosting faster. another way to have quick spool is to have a very inefficient engine this makes no sense. I fail to see the point you are making. I think you should think about what the efficiency of an engine really means...... it's not relevant for boost explanation anyways that's for sure.... anyways that's getting off topic for what this thread is really about turbochargers increase the engine efficiency by harnessing the normally wasted energy in the exhaust gases. I'm guessing your argument is that if less piston work was done, more kinetic energy would be left in the exhaust gases in terms of HIGH temperatures which would accelerate the compressor wheel faster. But why would anyone want to make the engine less efficient in the first place That defeats the purpose of a turbocharger entirely.... and as the for the combustion process..... well that's an entirely another story.... |
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88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 96.71MPH
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Chad Giffen
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2010, 06:12:44 PM » |
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I can see what he means by efficent engines boosting faster. He is saying inefficient engines boost faster....  |
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1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost
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John Hartman
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2010, 07:39:17 PM » |
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Chad, very few engines make 98% VE while N/A  |
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91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd. quickest and fastest pump gas 14b in BC? now -12/Tial equipped
91 Eagle 2000GTX 5spd awd. great handling 87octane daily driver. Compomotive, exhaust, cams.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km. Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs etc, bone stock,203awhp/238tq
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Chad Giffen
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2010, 08:01:02 PM » |
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at least 95% even with N/A... no less
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1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost
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Kristopher Rozon
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2010, 09:22:17 PM » |
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Chad, the fact that I even agreed with your further explanation shows I'm not trying to argue with you on this so I don't see what your problem is. Is boost pressure not the lack of air getting into the engine? I thought that was universally agreed. I've witnessed countless N/A engines become turbocharged where the turbo is boosting like mad yet none of it is making any major gains in the ultimate goal which is obviously packing it into the cylinders for combustion and getting it out the exhaust. So what good is the boost? We'd agree if you plug up the intake (crappy manifold, throttle body, valves, or bad cams) you can change spool time dramatically. Less than ideal cam timing on both intake and exhaust can have a similar effect; sometimes better spool, sometimes worse. And like Jason said, fuel mixture can also affect spool. Now choke up the exhaust side with a crap housing and/or wheel and it's entirely possible to have very quick spool with no flow. Maybe you run a stock O2 housing and DP with cat vs a 3"...in that case you will most certainly have longer waits till full boost. Spool strictly has to with how long it takes for the exhaust gases to accelerate the cartridge assembly (turbine and compressor) In this context, spool is the time it takes to build boost pressure. Not the time it takes to rotate the cartridge up to 1 million rpm. Yet I digress, boost is simply the air that does NOT get into the engine, period. Good for you if you can pressurize your intake pipe quicker than other people. I just want to stress that take spool with a grain of salt. It's more important to look at the overall curve and how the engine reacts to the new characteristics of the set up. Measuring grams of airflow works much better than how quick it spools IMHO. |
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« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 09:31:22 PM by Kristopher Rozon »
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Kristopher Rozon
2002 Audi allroad 2.7tt, stoptech 332 Ferodo 2500, yak rack, thule evolution 1600
1999 VW Jetta TDI
- Germans take a stupid idea and refine it to where it works beautifully. Americans take a brillant idea and cheapen it until it sucks. Italians make it beautiful, but might not work. Brits make it ugly, and it might not work. Japanese copy what works.
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yan tang
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2010, 02:09:10 AM » |
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took the car to the track tonight. it ran really strong. because it was the first time racing this setup, it took a little to get used to. bogged first gear on the first pass and picked up some knock in third and fourth, ran 12.12@117. second pass, launched much better, netted a 1.77 60ft, still knocked in third and fourth, ran 11.57@117. the car was getting super hot so i decided to sit out on the next couple of rounds. once the car was somewhat cool, i took it out for a third pass, with no other changes, cut a 1.67 60ft, this time no knock in third or fourth, ran an 11.08@124. i was able to knock off a half second off every pass but unfortunately i got kicked off the track on the third one. i'll go back in a couple weeks with some more power and some weight reduction and see if i can go 10's. tonight i ran the car with full weight(3000lbs) without me in it, and with my 18's on. i'm sure this turbo is quite capable of going 10's.
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11.01 @132mph with 489hp 389tq fp3052 (with shifting issues)
11.08 @ 123mph with 395hp 350tq hta68 daily driver
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John Hartman
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2010, 02:53:33 AM » |
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NICE!!! You picked up big MPH too. I trapped 117 at 11.9, but your 124mph is huge for a "16g" kinda turbo. With that weight and pump gas.
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91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd. quickest and fastest pump gas 14b in BC? now -12/Tial equipped
91 Eagle 2000GTX 5spd awd. great handling 87octane daily driver. Compomotive, exhaust, cams.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km. Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs etc, bone stock,203awhp/238tq
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yan tang
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2010, 03:38:34 AM » |
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yeah, i'm extremely happy with this setup. drives like a 14b car but scoots when the hammer's dropped. two thumbs up for sure
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11.01 @132mph with 489hp 389tq fp3052 (with shifting issues)
11.08 @ 123mph with 395hp 350tq hta68 daily driver
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Kristopher Rozon
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2010, 01:58:05 PM » |
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Holy crap! 124mph is MOOOOOOOOOOVING!!  It'd be fun to track the car on the road course. |
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Kristopher Rozon
2002 Audi allroad 2.7tt, stoptech 332 Ferodo 2500, yak rack, thule evolution 1600
1999 VW Jetta TDI
- Germans take a stupid idea and refine it to where it works beautifully. Americans take a brillant idea and cheapen it until it sucks. Italians make it beautiful, but might not work. Brits make it ugly, and it might not work. Japanese copy what works.
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Marke Bailey
Global Moderator
Hero Member
 Offline
Posts: 1587
B.C.'s quickest automatic DSM.
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2010, 02:38:50 PM » |
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Very Nice!  That is exactly what I want to get out of my car. Time to add the pre-turbo injection.... |
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The Sleepy Slushbox.
"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."
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Brett Haviland
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2010, 03:45:17 PM » |
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Nice job Yan!!! i bet you were happy with that!! almost in to the 10's with a "stock appearing" turbo!!
thats so awesome... by looking at the car you would never think it almost runs 10's lol
Two thumbs up!!
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yan tang
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2010, 01:37:11 AM » |
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11.01 @132mph with 489hp 389tq fp3052 (with shifting issues)
11.08 @ 123mph with 395hp 350tq hta68 daily driver
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Paul Pigar
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2010, 02:25:27 AM » |
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damn! i think am goin to swap my 20g for hta68 |
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-98 talon tsi awd
-96 talon tsi awd converted to eclipse gsx
-95 talon esi(sold)
-94 eclipse non-turbo(sold)
-91 talon tsi fwd(daily driver)
-90 nissan 300zx(sold)
-96 eclipse gs spyder
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