98 ecu tuned or safc

[j.l.forsen]

basically as the title states, again for my overhaul. i came across an apexi safc neo for $380. i just like how everything is shown on a screen including revs on top of the air and fuel,its a nice looking gadget. or should i stay with the 98 ecu and get it tuned as volcz said. to me it seems like theres a lot more you can do with the ecu but at the same time, the apexi safc seems more specialized, tell me what you think

[daniel sanat]

Get a aem ems it's twice the price of the neo used but by far the best for tuning

[andrew volcz]

an safc is a piggy back system.  the open ecu is essentially close to a full stand alone like the AEM EMS (or other), but clearly the stand alone will have more functions.  

you cannot change timing with the SAFC either.  

it sounds like you are comparing the open ecu and safc on the same level when they are definatly not.  @ $380, the neo is substancially more expensive and would still require installation.  



choose what you feel is best for your setup, but ANY option you pick will require tuning.  

[kevin derhouson]

if its one or the other choose the ecu, then you won't be limited to injector size like the safc, and timing like has been mentioned...


definitely ecu.

[Mikael Mikkelsen]

Though I currently have neither of these setups, I have spent quite a bit of time looking at all the different ones, from ipod obd connectors, safc's, ems, link, ect ect..

I decided that when I do it I'm getting a full standalone, ONLY over going with Andrew for the two simple reasons that I really really want to learn how to do it myself, and I live 5 hours from town


What I'm trying to say is that unless you really want to learn and get your own setup then get andrew to do it for you. You said that the apexi setup looked more specialized, I have a feeling that andrew is going to be much much more specialized, plus he's in town to change stuff when you want to.

[John Hartman]

if you just want to tune a little bit and not worry too much an SAFC can do just fine, but if you want to run big injectors, lots of boost, make serious power, its just not enough of a tuning tool for you.

Its biggest hurdle is that when you remove fuel(such as for when you want to compensate for large injectors) you add timing.

So, as you compensate for your 650cc injectors you are taking out a large amout of fuel.  But because we are just fooling the stock ECU into thinking we are at a lower airflow number, the ECU also goes to the timing map from that airflow number.  This is almost always accompanied by a much more aggressive timing map.

So you go WOT with big boost and the appropriate amout of fuel, but now you have 2-3 more degrees of timing ON TOP of an already aggressive map, assuming full factory timing.  now your car knocks like crazy.  So you add more fuel and drown the thing  and its slobbering rich.  Yes it doesn't knock as much now, but its down on power, costs you money and pollutes like a carbed Chevy.  Then later on, because you are driving it like this for a long time, your chambers are all carboned up and you knock more.  So you add more fuel(and take out more timing) and its ok for a few days/weeks, but then it starts to knock again.  this is due to the carbon build up.  As its super rich already, you know you can't add any more fuel.  Your aircare is now up, and you can't pass for anything because its so rich and filthy.

And from our conversation at McDinks, you want to go with 850s.  There is no way you can successfully tune 850s with an SAFC and have a good driving car.  Not in the long run and not really.

With a 2g you can run DSMLink, EvoScan or other setups.

[CamWeiss]

Sounds like an SAFC would work awesome with some meth/water.

(or at least I hope so, it's the next plan for me...)
I'd like thoughts on what I'm going to try as well.
I've got a JeffO chip, 650's, 3G mas, and water/meth as it is now. I'm finding it's running too rich, beyond tuning it out with some fuel pressure adjustments. I bought an SAFC from Dan just yesterday, I'm hoping to get it leaned out a bit. It's pretty good for knock right now with the 50/50 I'm injecting, but I want to try and optimize things a bit.
I know I should probably get a wideband if I'm trying to lean the car out a bit, but I'm hoping I can get away with just the datalogging I've got now for monitoring things. Budget's tight right now.

(Oh, on a 1G, not a 2G)

[John Hartman]

with the chip compensating for the injectors, you should be fine with an SAFC to lean things out.  you won't have to take too much out.

use your fuel pressure to get it close and then dial it in with the SAFC.  When I ran a maf and tuned for fuel trims I ran my low and mid trims into the higher(lean) numbers, for better mileage and throttle response.