clutch issues....

[Jason Swan]

just got motor into talon after a torturous year and half with many twists and turns.

got basic tune done and tried to back car out of garage.

previous shennanigans dealing with the clutch on this car involved replacing the master and slave, removing, welding and replacing the clutch pedal assembly and bleeding bleeding bleeding.

we never did resolve the issues prior to the motor in the car at that time grenading.

since then there is now a different known good tranny in the car, a new pivot ball (with a shim), a new-to-me clutch fork in good shape, a new throw-out bearing and I have the same exact problem as before of no pedal feel and very abrupt engagement right off the floor.

The clutch is act 2100 with 6 puck sprung and an act flywheel.  That is the common element that has not changed from the previous incarnation to now, other than the clutch master and slave cylinders which are brand new and I am sure properly bled.

I still have to do under the dash and check the adjustments there, but they did bugger all before and they will do bugger all now i am sure.

So, i am now wondering if a flywheel with an improper step height could result in the symptoms that I am describing - next to no pedal feel and engagement right off the floor regardless of adjustments. I have never checked the step height on the flywheel so ....

I have a stock flywheel I can throw in - I suspect no matter what I am tearing apart the freshly assembled car to pull the tranny *sobs*.  Getting very tired of this.

[Jesse Veitch]

Should you need to shim the pivot ball if your ball and fork aren't worn and are in good condition?

I thought it was just a cheap fix for worn parts, but I could be wrong. Maybe this is throwing your pedal out of adjustment? Thinking about it in my head seems like shimming the fork out further would cause the engagement to be up higher though, not down at the floor like you're having trouble with. Maybe your ball and fork are quite worn and your shim isn't enough? Just throwing ideas out.. not really sure on this one.

[JEsse Thomson]

How did your previous motor grenade ?

[Jason Swan]

How did your previous motor grenade ?

This thread http://www.bcdsm.org/forum/index.php/topic,25073.0.html has the details.

Since then in the teardown of that motor, we found that the plate behind the main crank used for timing purposes had gotten reversed by the previous owner so although all indications were that the motor was correctly timed, the thing was actually out by up to 15 degrees and it was only a matter of time before valves would break.  This was confirmed by the pistons being approx 2" shy of TDC when said plate was aligned with notch.  With plate reversed, pistons were at TDC with notch aligned.

[Jason Harwood]

Every high perf clutch ive ever owned engaged right away off the floor, after months of driving and getting good at feathing. They started to give me some play. The pedal adjustment is as good as it gets.

Ive never owned an ACT like yours, but my ACT in my civic engaged right away too!

[GlenMartin]

Every high perf clutch ive ever owned engaged right away off the floor, after months of driving and getting good at feathing. They started to give me some play. The pedal adjustment is as good as it gets.

Ive never owned an ACT like yours, but my ACT in my civic engaged right away too!

yup i second this comment./.

[John Hartman]

I partly concur with Jason.  Not all ACT clutches, I have driven a few street disc style ACTs that were fine,but a puck clutch will be harsher.

as well if its the wrong/incorrectly setup flywheel this will make it worse.

And, I suspect maybe that clutch release fork is giving you some grief. Did you really inspect it and compare it to a known good one?  All it takes is a bit of bending/warping for it to be shit.

And, I know you say its the same as before, but double check your pedal adjustment.  It needs some actual free play, but not too much.

[Dan Harshey]

I found making the under dash adjustments made a huge differences with my pedal feel and clutch engagement.  I've done a few clutches on DSM's now and they typically feel like crap until I made the adjustment under the dash.

[Robert Vorley]

I had two Act pressure plates fail. The first one had a finger break off, the second had half snap off leaving me stranded. The most likely cause was improper step height adjustment. The third was installed with a new act flywheel and no problem, I am currently using the same used pressure plate with a new act flywheel and 6 puck.
My pedal engagement was near the floor on the second clutch. Everything was replaced. Even my master and slave twice! I would highly recommend getting your step height verified, especially if everything else seems good.

[Brett Haviland]

BTW... step hieght should be .610" if im not mistaken.

[Jordan Kruger]

I replaced my clutch master recently and noticed that the one I was running had actually been modified slightly.   The end braket on the push rod had been lengthened by welding the adjustment nut onto the bottom  rather than on the inside surface.   allowing the pushrod to be adjusted out another 1/4"    This helps get the clutch release point off the floor.    Vlad has the same clutch pp and flywheel setup as me, and his grabs right off the ground (which hes used to and likes)  Whereas mine is a bit off the ground due to the lengthened master rod.  Neither one of us have a washer under our pivotball. 

[Brett Haviland]

yeah i have never used a washer under the pivot ball either..

the champagne had a pedal that released a little close to the floor so i ended up adjusting the master cylinder rod a little bit to extend the throw a bit.  Shifts a lot better now.

[Jason Swan]

Afaik the clutch pedal is already adjusted all the way out so I may be out of luck there. The washer shim was put in because of the previous problems I had and I reasoned that I could always back it off a bit if the takeup was too high. Bit of a gamble but I already knew I had problems with the takeup from before so I thought it was worth a try.

I may get a new fork just so i can rule that out as a source of the problem but if adjustment does nothing I may pull the tranny just so I can measure the flywheel.

[Jordan Kruger]

just a quick note.     even with your stock master cylinder rod maxed out,  you cant achieve the extra 1/4 without modifying the little end bracket.    The way I look at it.   there are so many factors in so many areas that you may as well try to gain a bit of travel over stock..   

 -resurfacing flywheel = lost travel
 -Bent or worn pressure plate = lost travel
 -pivot ball worn = lost travel
 -clutch fork worn = lost travel
 
There is also an issue a lot of times with cheap aftermarket master cylinders not being able to move fluid as efficiently as OEM.

[Brett Haviland]

also add to that list...

-Worn pedal assembly = lost travel....