!!!! - HELP - !!!! Loud knocking sound from motor...

[Wes Chapman]

So I'm on my way to Mission and I'm doing 140-160km on the huge and wide stretch just before town, and I notice the power was down and wouldn't go faster.  So I figure theirs a boost leak and Ill check when I arrive.  Soon I get behind some traffic, several mins pass, and notice I have NO power at all, and could barely keep it going to pull over.  Push it to a gas station a couple blocks away, and wait for my ride while I ponder in my head what could've happened.  


So I notice and burnt oil smell and get out and check.  My water reservoir was boiling (gauge read normal) and oil from the valve cover had spewed oil everywhere, not alot but noticeable.


After it cooled, I checked the water level, and oil level, all is good, and it starts up fine.  So I limp it to my moms place and notice a metal spinning blade sound resembling a turbo with bad bearings.  After checking, notice some peices of the impeller missing, and blame the turbo.  And swap in a new one today.


Now It still makes a loud knocking sound from the motor.  Turbo sounds normal.  Oil pressure seems low now too.  I have no idea WTF is going on here and need help asap.  


I NEED someone to look at it and give me some direction here, I'm new to DSM's and I'm unsure what it could be and dont have large coin to throw at it.



HELP PLEASE!!!!    The car at is at my garage ion Delta if someone can help .


1999 Eclipse GSX  (Lois's old one)

[Derek Fung]

where is the sound coming from? the head or the bottom of the motor?

pull your oil pan, or drain your oil, to see what kinda bits and pieces are in it.  

from your description of your clanking, could be a toasted bearings in the bottom end.  that could also be why you have  lower oil pressure from more clearance on the bearings.  taking a guess here.

[Artem Goloubov]

that T28 Turbo how new was it? if it's new and it went then there are some oiling issues and most likely bottom end bearings are shot. After new turbo install is it smoking at all?

[Wes Chapman]

that T28 Turbo how new was it? if it's new and it went then there are some oiling issues and most likely bottom end bearings are shot. After new turbo install is it smoking at all?

No smoke at all, and the T-28 was used, but from another BCDSM members car.  


If I drop the oil pan will I notice play on the connecting rods if the bearings are shot?  How can I check to see if the oil pan is working correctly?

[Artem Goloubov]

Drain the oil, no need in dropping the pan, if you notice any metal shavings in the oil, then drop the pan. I would suggest showing the car to someone knowledgeable so they could identify knocking sound.

Bad Rod bearing sounds like a hammer hitting an iron wall. Best way to tell if it's a rod bearing is to start the car, then disconnect plug wires one at a time, whichever rod bearing is shot it will stop knocking once you disconnect the corresponding cylinder plug.

let us know what you've found.

[Derek Fung]

was the knocking sound there before installing the turbo? or started to happen after a while you installed the turbo?

[Wes Chapman]

was the knocking sound there before installing the turbo? or started to happen after a while you installed the turbo?

Well when my car overboosted and i heard that noise it was due to a bent connecting rod

It developed over a couple mins of steady cruizing behind traffic, so I doubt I was over boosting.

[Wes Chapman]

Drain the oil, no need in dropping the pan, if you notice any metal shavings in the oil, then drop the pan. I would suggest showing the car to someone knowledgeable so they could identify knocking sound.

Bad Rod bearing sounds like a hammer hitting an iron wall. Best way to tell if it's a rod bearing is to start the car, then disconnect plug wires one at a time, whichever rod bearing is shot it will stop knocking once you disconnect the corresponding cylinder plug.

let us know what you've found.

No metal shavings that I noticed (I had all ready changed to oil when I swapped in the new turbo)  And I'm going to check the cylinders with the spark plug method today.  You described the sound well... "like a hammer hitting an iron wall"

[John Hartman]

I also don't like the part with "boiling coolant"  that sounds like bubbling in the recovery bottle right?  That spells dead head gasket too, what happens is the engine compression pushes out into the coolant passages and makes bubbles, like when you blow back into your drink thru the straw.

If you pull the pan, you can push/pull on each rod and find the play in either the main bearing or the rod bearing.  Or visibly see a bent rod or other damage.

If its anything in the bottom end(and it almost has to be) its not worth rebuilding it, as you are going to have to do the head gasket anyways, and that means doing the timing belt/water pump stuff now that the belts are off.  So, you can do all that stuff with the engine in the car (balance shaft removal sucks in car) or you can get another good working engine and swap it as a unit.

[Martin Raska]

I also don't like the part with "boiling coolant"  that sounds like bubbling in the recovery bottle right?  That spells dead head gasket too, what happens is the engine compression pushes out into the coolant passages and makes bubbles, like when you blow back into your drink thru the straw.

Check radiator cap first.

[Wes Chapman]

I also don't like the part with "boiling coolant"  that sounds like bubbling in the recovery bottle right?  That spells dead head gasket too, what happens is the engine compression pushes out into the coolant passages and makes bubbles, like when you blow back into your drink thru the straw.

If you pull the pan, you can push/pull on each rod and find the play in either the main bearing or the rod bearing.  Or visibly see a bent rod or other damage.

If its anything in the bottom end(and it almost has to be) its not worth rebuilding it, as you are going to have to do the head gasket anyways, and that means doing the timing belt/water pump stuff now that the belts are off.  So, you can do all that stuff with the engine in the car (balance shaft removal sucks in car) or you can get another good working engine and swap it as a unit.

I think your right on all counts.  The engine knocking is reduced when cylinder 2 spark plug is removed.  Which almost certainly spells crank shaft problems, and if the head gasket needs changing, and what ever other damage occurred that I don't know about because of the ridiculously loud knocking that I cant hear yet....  OMFG  ....WTF!  I must have ran too much boost then??  Why did the rest of the motor get starved of oil and cause all this damage?  How can I prevent this in the future?!!  Arggghh... I miss my reliable cars I used to own.....

[John Hartman]

well, if the head gasket went causing water and oil to mix, your main and rod bearings(not to mention everything else) were being lubricated by "salad dressing" not engine oil.  It looks like a mochachino when it comes out if its bad.

as far as dsm reliability, for the most part, things like this don't happen that much.  Yes you have to do timing belts etc and you have to maintain them, but bottom end problems(besides crank walk on 7bolts) are pretty rare.  Well, unless you get really bad detonation or run out of oil or something like that.

My car has 260+ on it and I drive it hard, and its close to making double the power it came with from the factory.

Mike S's car has well over 300+ on his.

There is a guy back east that went nearly 400,000 on his.

[Wes Chapman]

well, if the head gasket went causing water and oil to mix, your main and rod bearings(not to mention everything else) were being lubricated by "salad dressing" not engine oil.  It looks like a mochachino when it comes out if its bad.

as far as dsm reliability, for the most part, things like this don't happen that much.  Yes you have to do timing belts etc and you have to maintain them, but bottom end problems(besides crank walk on 7bolts) are pretty rare.  Well, unless you get really bad detonation or run out of oil or something like that.

My car has 260+ on it and I drive it hard, and its close to making double the power it came with from the factory.

Mike S's car has well over 300+ on his.

There is a guy back east that went nearly 400,000 on his.

The oil never got that frothy look it would usually get when head gaskets go, and I never noticed any white smoke either.  Maybe the head gasket is okay?


Does anyone know how to check the oil pump?  I never ran low of oil at anytime since I have owned the car (maybe half a quart at most)  And I always run 91 octane so detonation shouldn't be and issue unless the knock sensor wasn't functioning?


Tomorrows I'm dropping the pan and having a closer look, and Ill post some pics of my findings.  Thanks for all the help guys... I miss my car and can't wait to get her running again.  Its now a very expensive lawn ornament right now

[Mike Schmid]

What kind of oil do you run?  

I run 20w50 on both my motors.  The new one is fairly loose to handle bigger power on forged internals and the thick oil has the good film strength on the bearings if you see any detonation.  On the old stock motor with 300k kms I'm also running it because the clearances have got to be getting pretty loose on that motor and it can't hurt.  Plus all the reading I've done on oils says the only reason we're seeing these lightweight oils is to help meet CAFE fuel economy standards.  Better fuel economy means you can sell more cars in general and better economy in the small cars leaves more room for the manufacturers to offer guzzler SUVs with high profit margins.  The thinner oil will keep a motor together past warranty so it's a no-lose for the manufacturer.  

Couple that with reformulated oil blends that eliminate the really good additives because they're harmful to the environment and the thicker oil really can't hurt.  This reformulation is apparently a good share of the cause of flat tappet lifter failure in the pushrod v8 world, which apparently is becoming something of an epidemic.  

I can't/won't say it's the cause of what happened but possibly a contributor.  

As far as detonation saying "no chance of that, I run 91" is almost laughable.  No offence intended, it's just the way it is.  You can melt motors down on 94, quickly even.  You can definitely have knock on any pump gas.  Even leaded race gas isn't always a cure all for detonation, tho it is far less likely in that case.  

What was your boost pressure?  Raising the boost too much on an otherwise stock motor is a sure way to bring on detonation.

There's a lot of things that could potentially kill a performance motor.  Detonation is a huge one, it's always suspect on anything boosted or high compression.  It's hard on pistons, especially right lands, and also on rods and bearings.  Overheating is another fairly big one.  Either the stock system is inadequate, or extended high stress use can do that.  Also, something to watch, especially on a turbo motor is exhaust gas temperature.  Extended high speed operation or high throttle hill climbing can put alot of heat in the exhaust and potentially burn valves or damage turbos.  Oil starvation is another one, not so common tho, often caused by something careless, excessive RTV breaking off and clogging a passage, garbage in the pan, oil pump/pickup failure, low oil.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, good guages are a good way to safeguard a motor.

[Jeetinder Ghataurah]

was the knocking sound there before installing the turbo? or started to happen after a while you installed the turbo?

Well when my car overboosted and i heard that noise it was due to a bent connecting rod

It developed over a couple mins of steady cruizing behind traffic, so I doubt I was over boosting.

Even mine happened while cruising