Lifter Tick Question *not actually lifter tick!*

[CamWeiss]

Okay, so I'm aware of the poorly designed lifters in our cars and that the typical fix is remove and replace (or clean, on occasion).

Slightly differently formed question on my part though. My 2g that I've basically been sitting on for the last year has got what sounds like one noisy lifter. The P.O. said that he replaced the whole set with the revised parts, but never ran it afterwards. I do know that correct bleed procedure is important when doing that job.

So... If I've got one noisy lifter after replacement (although the car hasn't been run much in the past year, few minutes here and there), can I go back in and re-bleed the lifter, or will it self inflate after enough run time? Or do I go straight for a replacement?

Thanks!

[Jordan Kruger]

of course you can re-bleed the lifter!    Ive had some bunk 3g lifters right out of the box!       They pump up fairly quick once the motor is running again.   like a minute or so.   Sometimes quicker.   
I put them upside down and go to town with a needle in the end, pumping them over and over until they compress no problem.
I also let them sit for a minute or two then go back and try to compress them by hand.  Sometimes you dont get all the oil out in the first try.

Throw the problematic lifter back in,   drive it around the block,   if its still an issue at that point,   toss in a new one.

Im not sure what method you use to remove and install lifters.   but I make sure the piston is low in its bore by pulling a plug and putting a rod down to rest on the piston,  that way you can visually see the piston drop as you slowly rotate the crank.  Once you have the piston low,  you can tackle the lifter that doesnt have the cam lobe pressing down on its respective rocker.
I just pry them sideways off the lifter with a screy driver,   wedge the screwdriver down beside the lifter and use the shaft of the screw driver to push the rocker sideways off the lifter.     To install the rocker,  I just use a short length of 1/2" copper slightly squished at one end,  line the rocker up and give the one end of the copper tube a love tap with a mallet.   Rocker snaps right back into place.

[Kevin Altoe]

of course you can re-bleed the lifter!    Ive had some bunk 3g lifters right out of the box!       They pump up fairly quick once the motor is running again.   like a minute or so.   Sometimes quicker.   
I put them upside down and go to town with a needle in the end, pumping them over and over until they compress no problem.
I also let them sit for a minute or two then go back and try to compress them by hand.  Sometimes you dont get all the oil out in the first try.

Throw the problematic lifter back in,   drive it around the block,   if its still an issue at that point,   toss in a new one.

Im not sure what method you use to remove and install lifters.   but I make sure the piston is low in its bore by pulling a plug and putting a rod down to rest on the piston,  that way you can visually see the piston drop as you slowly rotate the crank.  Once you have the piston low,  you can tackle the lifter that doesnt have the cam lobe pressing down on its respective rocker.
I just pry them sideways off the lifter with a screy driver,   wedge the screwdriver down beside the lifter and use the shaft of the screw driver to push the rocker sideways off the lifter.     To install the rocker,  I just use a short length of 1/2" copper slightly squished at one end,  line the rocker up and give the one end of the copper tube a love tap with a mallet.   Rocker snaps right back into place.

I did exactly what you did Jordan when I changed lifters in my old 1G to the revised ones.  The first start up they ticked like crazy.  Drove it around for a bit, then they were quiet ever since.

I would drive the car around and see if the tick goes away. 

[CamWeiss]

I think I'll give it some time on the road - In the year I've owned it it maybe has an hour of run time, mostly at idle. But I'm headed out tomorrow to get tags for it, drive it a couple days, and possibly throw it straight into the fire with an autocross Sunday. If she's still ticky-ticky afterwards then I'll dig in and see if I can't re-bleed.

[Yas Jandric]

wow Cam when did you get a 2G?

I just bought another e30. Super clean. It will get a nice little transplant.
I lost your cell... Pm me. Could go for a drive sometimes.

Oh yeah, fix those lifters.

[CamWeiss]

wow Cam when did you get a 2G?

I just bought another e30. Super clean. It will get a nice little transplant.
I lost your cell... Pm me. Could go for a drive sometimes.

Oh yeah, fix those lifters.

Yo! Been a while!

I got a 2g GST about 11 months ago, non-runner. Just picked up tags for it today, although it's likely to go up for sale very soon to support travel this year. Still have my 1g and e30 though... For now.
There's an e30/etc meet tomorrow (erm... this morning. Saturday) at noon at Dallas Rd, and drive thingy afterwards up the peninsula if you happen to be free!

[Richard Steger]

Autocross?!?!  In January?  Waaaa i wish I lived in Victoria!!!

[CamWeiss]

Well I didn't end up going out for autocross... got sick instead.

But yep. Autox is pretty much year round, rain or shine.

UBCSCC does slaloms in Vancouver over the winter as well. And VCMC's season starts before spring I believe, although they don't have dates posted yet.
http://www.ubcscc.com/club-events/

After a few days of driving it's still ticky-ticky, so I think I'll order a few replacement lifters (If I have to take them out, I might as well replace them, even if they are essentially new).

[CamWeiss]

Okay, so not lifter tick. I was over at Kevin Buckham's tonight for a while, to pick his brain. It had sounded a little 'deeper' than the usual lifter tick so I wanted to go get his opinion... We both agreed that it's not the usual here. Took the VC off and checked the rockers and lifters around where the sound was coming from - The car does have the revised lifters - and removed three of them to check movement and compression on them. Swapped in three OE second design ones, and checked the rocker arms as well. Same sound, still.

He took a video... Take a look and see what you think. Is coming from the intake cam and seems to be centered around #3, but without a stethoscope it could also be 2 or 4. Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdH1-WVikwg&feature=youtu.be

[KevinBuckham]

This one stumped me.  i would have said rod-knock for sure as it gets louder and more clattery with RPMs but the sound is plainly coming from the valve cover area. 

We put in three older OEM revised lifters I had lying around and of course they were super loud for a few minutes until they pumped up, but the noise remained. I completely expected to have found a tossed rocker or an obviously bad lifter, but everything looked good.

[Mike Grant]

Could the noise be coming from a fuel injector ?. I had an injector go south on my truck and it sounded almost identical to the noise on your youtube video. You could actually feel the tick on  the fuel rail.

[Travis Koch]

What about loose timing belt?  they can sound ticky if the tensioner has let loose.

[Brett Haviland]

I had a engine that I swore up and down it was lifter tick...  changed lifters, same issue.   Ended up being piston wrist pin

also being a 2G,  check crankshaft end play,  cant hurt. check compression, leakdown if possible,

could also be a problem with valve installed height causing excessive valve lash.. or not enough oil getting to head due to too much being machined of head.  (oil relief porting helps this, but head has to be off for that.  A quick oil pressure check from the head (small allen key set screw near where the turbo oil feed line would be on a 1G is a good spot to check in the head from HLA

[CamWeiss]

Haven't had a chance to investigate any more, but I've got a couple days free next week for the car...

Doubt it could be an injector - But I'll isolate them and see. A nice side effect would be that if it's a bad bearing in the bottom end it might unload it enough to stop ticking when there's no fuel in that hole.

Wrong area of the motor to be TBelt related, methinks. Centered around #3 hole, but possibly #2.

Will also do a compression test when I work on it, and I think my dad has a leakdown tester I can steal. He also has a scope, will check piston tops for any marks.

Not sure if the head's been off or not. Will check for crankwalk.

Thanks for the ideas guys, I've got some work to do when I get the chance! Will report back...

[CamWeiss]

Well, did a little bit more messing about today. Unplugged injectors while the car was running, one by one, with no change whatsoever to the sound (that, I'll note, is quiet at startup and present when at operating temperature). But I think that would more or less eliminate the possibility of a bad wrist pin - With no fuel going in it should be unloaded enough to be quiet.
Couldn't find a stethoscope to use, so I just did the halfassed method of putting my ear to a screwdriver. Poked around a whole bunch - And got different results than I was expecting. Intake side of #2/3 where I thought it was coming from was not the loudest source of noise. The most volume I could get was on the TB side of the motor, against the motor mount and head/vc on that side with the motor mount (engine side, not body side) being the most focused. I think lots of that sound, by plain hearing, was travelling up the inside of the intake manifold and up from there, which made it sound like intake side valves.

So..... I guess TB tensioner is the most likely culprit. Travis, you might have nailed it. That said, I've got receipts that came with the car indicating that a timing belt kit, water pump, and tensioner were all put into the car in mid 2013. Given that it sat with Jamie for almost a year and with me for almost a year, I don't think there should be much if any mileage on it. It was a jobber part, not OEM. Perhaps it was installed incorrectly, although it could have failed prematurely.

I did steal my dad's scope today as well, so I'll still scope and compression test each hole as well.