British Columbia DSM
GVRD - BC DSM Club => Specs, Techs & Reviews => Topic started by: Allen fong on January 23, 2013, 05:09:58 pm
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Anyone tried these? do they work?
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I use it, no idea if it does.. but it's not expensive
logically it does make sense :p
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It does work. I havent ran mine yet, but I know a few people that do and have noted a difference. It makes quite a big difference if you are able to keep the intake manifold cooler. Scavenging at its best!
Its inexpensive, seals well, re-usable, and available from RTM with super quick shipping.
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It does work. I havent ran mine yet, but I know a few people that do and have noted a difference. It makes quite a big difference if you are able to keep the intake manifold cooler.
I have heard the same thing but I haven't seen any proof yet. It is probably just a placebo effect but I would love to see RTM's evidence of a "dramatic" intake temp reductions from its spacer. Under what conditions? How much of a temp reduction?
Some amount of heat transfer is likely taking place though, so why not make one yourself, save on the ridiculous price gouge on a piece of plastic ($42), and with the money you saved get some new go fast stickers to show off your cars new found power. :D
I came across a good discussion of this @ http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5121664-Phenolic-intake-manifold-spacer-comparison-034-VS-New-South-Performance-(pictures-of-course) 20v master echoes my feelings.
This topic reminds me of those Octane Boosters sold @ Walmart etc, that only effectively raise your octane by 0.3 RON. People still swear they work!!
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The radiant heat is a power killer on these cars undoubtedly. But I guarantee that it works with the heat transfer between the cylinder head and the intake manifold. Its 1/4" thick ceramic. Which is good at acting as a thermal barrier. Swaintech offers ceramic coating on manifolds at .012" that has been proven to reduce temps by 30-40%.
take 2 chunks of aluminum and put a penny between them and clamp them together. Heat the aluminum with a torch on one side. See how hot the other aluminum side gets...
Ill bet with a 1/4" thick piece of ceramic used rather than the penny, the temp transfer will be a hell of a lot lower.
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Sadly, keeping the heat in the head doesn't help power production either.
Hey you owe me a penny for the one I melted doing your test! ;) My guess is you didn't use plastic since it would melt and distort and would become a boost leak source? :)
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haha plastic bad . ceramic good.
and your penny is in the mail. ;)
As far as keeping the heat in, I see what you are saying, but with sufficient cooling in other areas (ie, rad fan(s), radiator, thermostat and good engine bay ventilation ) you should see a benefit.
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Read that thread, the 20v dude suggests how to make "gaskets gains" elsewhere, for cheaper.
That side of the engine is seriously heat challenged. On a heat related note, I was going to install a big computer type fan beneath my brake reservoir in order to improve brake feel and reduce brake fade during the summer, under normal driving conditions of course. ;)
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I was thinking about that too! kinda..
Ill bet a good fan that can pull a good amount of CFM out of the engine bay , that is shrouded and ducted to the underside of the car could probably work really good for keeping bay temps down. But I wouldnt want to put any more load on the cars power supply...
I think a good start is to get rid of the hood gasket along the base of the windshield. It helped bring my temps down for sure.
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I think a good start is to get rid of the hood gasket along the base of the windshield. It helped bring my temps down for sure.
I did that for awhile, although I though it changed the pressure zones underhood, since mine was vented. I wanted to install tassles to check air flow around and over the hood.
You could go jdm style and life the back of the hood up with a spacer. Although if you mess with it too much you will add drag which will require more power....etc. Good idea for auto x though.
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On a heat related note, I was going to install a big computer type fan beneath my brake reservoir in order to improve brake feel and reduce brake fade during the summer, under normal driving conditions of course. ;)
Would it not be easier and more efficient to run cooling ducts to cool the discs/calipers?
Better to eliminate the heat altogether then try to cool it after.
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Cooling ducts are great for cooling the rotors which is why track guys swear by them and in extreme cases employ water to cool them. Brake cooling ducts by themselves probably won't resolve brake fluid heat retention due to high under hood temps aggravated by stagnated air.
Efficiency is in the details, details like phenolic spacers and gurney flaps that may be hard to quantify (or justify) under normal driving conditions.
Hooking up a 12v fan on a bracket might be easier than routing and installing brake cooling ducts, but that wasn't my main concern, that and I was half-joking, please note the wink. :)
Good points though as ducts do work for repeated hard braking and are a worthwhile mod if they can be made to prevent heat from being transferred through the pads/calipers into the brake fluid in the first place. Once the heat is there what can be done? Agreed, prevention is always preferable.
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Ok well i'll pick one up and take some before and after measurements see how it performs. I know i can't put my hand on my intake mani after a good day of driving. ( i have the scar to prove it) but thats gonna have to wait till spring
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Ok well i'll pick one up and take some before and after measurements see how it performs. I know i can't put my hand on my intake mani after a good day of driving. ( i have the scar to prove it) but thats gonna have to wait till spring
Look forward to your results. I can't put my hand on my strut tower bar either, and that isn't even touching the head.
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Its seems like all cars get stupid amount of engine heat at the firewall. Especially the poor V8 rwd cars that have two hot headers closely passing by.
Its still bloody warm in a dsm engine bay at the firewall even though the manifold is on the front of the motor. That has me hesitant to mount my dynatek up there. I may do something similar to the suggested 2g install position, which is by the timing cover. I dont know if its any better, but it seems to me that the sides of the engine bay stay a bit cooler than the front and back (along the whole firewall).
I DO think that the barrier gasket works. But I also think that you MUST assist its function by venting the engine bay really well before you will see a really good noticeable difference. Who knows yet though.. It could turn out to be even better than price tag!
But like you said Rob, it isnt really proven. (atleast not to our knowledge)
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I moved my Dynatek from the timing cover area after the second failure. It gets really hot there and if you do put it there do NOT mount it on the "hot plate" that is included with it unless of course you place a phenolic spacer between the Dyantek and the plate. ;) I moved mine to the glove box but be warned, it is loud.
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Need a ram air intake into a box with you air filter/intake sealed with your box in there.
At the back of the cold air box you run your brake cooling ducts.
That way when your on the gas the air is being used for the right thing.
Hit the brakes, air bypasses the intake and cools the brakes.
All the while keepin you from getting a hot box.
Might need to get creative to keep moisture out but I could be done.
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Ok well i'll pick one up and take some before and after measurements see how it performs. I know i can't put my hand on my intake mani after a good day of driving. ( i have the scar to prove it) but thats gonna have to wait till spring
Look forward to your results. I can't put my hand on my strut tower bar either, and that isn't even touching the head.
this is fact!
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I moved my Dynatek from the timing cover area after the second failure. It gets really hot there and if you do put it there do NOT mount it on the "hot plate" that is included with it unless of course you place a phenolic spacer between the Dyantek and the plate. ;) I moved mine to the glove box but be warned, it is loud.
I wasn't aware Dynatek made any noise or the mounting plate actually gets hot.
Are there are negatives to having a CDI box far away from the coils???
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Re: Dynatek noise. Either did I Daniel. It is like having your ear against the plug wells as they fire. It is muted in the glove box though.
If you have lots of radiant heat the metal plate will become saturated and conduct some of its heat into the cdi's heatsink. This is one of the few instances where thermo plastic would be preferred.
Ideally you should keep connections as short as possible but I would say the only real negative is passing a high voltage wire through the firewall without emf shielding.
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Sadly, keeping the heat in the head doesn't help power production either.
also its about keeping the air as cold as possible before it gets thrown in the cylinder so the less heated material the "colder" air goes through the better ,
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I agree, particularly before it is compressed. The heat has to go somewhere. If the heat that was going into the manifold is prevented from doing so where does it go?
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I would have to assume the ambient air temp in the engine bay may go up instead of heat transfer into the intake. At lease its away from the air. Then do what Rob suggested and make an actual airbox.
Although on that note check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI
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Nice video! I would like to see them do a few more tests with higher underhood temperatures and see if the difference becomes larger.
Drop-in filters can improve performance IF the filter is a restriction to begin with and less of a restriction then the OEM.
If the Skyline's (in the video) intercooler is able to keep up with the heat load there shouldn't be a significant power difference. When the heat load exceeds the intercoolers ability to reject that heat you will see power drop unless cooler air becomes available or meth, etc is added. IF the intake system is already at that threshold a small temperature increase will likely reduce total power output. This is rather obvious at the track as ambient temps drop it moves the cars into their efficiency range for longer or allows them to add more timing/boost.
RE: Heat kept in the head. Logically, if the surface area for cooling is (significantly) reduced then cooling will become (noticably) less efficient. I would be concerned that the extra heat that is not being conducted into the intake will only keep the head hotter. If this results in higher average combustion temps it will result in lowering the detonation threshold more than compared with the heat added to the air passing through the intake manifold alone.
I wonder how much heat is actually absorbed by the air passing through the intake manifold on a turbo that flows 50lb+/min? How many degrees could it add? Any physics majors here? :)
A related problem, albeit the degree of tolerance is probably much more sensitive, is introduced when coating pistons since the thermal decay rate within the combustion chamber is extremely important for controlling the burn rate of the fuel while avoiding pre-ignition.
With that said, if your tune isn't near the bitter edge it probably isn't worth losing sleep over. Shielding your intake, as Rob said, with a provision for colder air to enter is cheap insurance for maximizing your power potential. :D
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Ya mighty car modz is really informative! ! , so just run your vehicle without a hood and your air intake out of the engine bay im sure thatll drop the Temp in your intake, + if your running meth you shouldnt have to buy the intake heat barrier it would be cold as ice and the best combustion temp ;) , now thats the kind of tests they should be doing, hahahaa... of coarse it can only get so cold with out the motor running temp getting in the way,
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Meth aint that cold! Run the heat barrier gasket regardless of your setup.. if your sold on it or not. Its a good seal and less metal on metal will definitely result in lower transferred heat between the head and intake manifold. That doesnt mean your going to make way more power!! It means that you've taken ONE step to making your intake temps lower.
Ill check the temps in a month or so :)
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For anyone that would like some indepth meth injection info here is one of the best sources that I have read:
http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/9100RS9H.txt?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=1981%20Thru%201985&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C81THRU85%5CTXT%5C00000019%5C9100RS9H.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p%7Cf&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1
Insulate the head with the spacer to keep the heat in the head, not in the manifold. OK. ;D
Hey Jordan, RTM said your cheque is in the mail. ;)
Did you send that penny through Canada Post? Cause it ain't here yet...and since they have discontinued pennies I figure I am going to make some real money off of it as a collectors item.
Bryan, I am pretty sure that driving without a hood is illegal on the street where it would still be a trade off with the extra drag it would add. It would be nice not to have to lift the hood to check on things though. :)
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haha I have no problem being an RTM racing advocate.
Heres a good example why...
I bought stuff from RTM racing at 11pm last night
The order was shipped out around 7am today.
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Ok I'm going to test this gasket soon .....July 15th ....however it will be on a stock intake without the barrier and evo3 intake with barrier gasket! I don't believe the difference in manifolds is going to throw off the results all that much if at all. I will be logging the temp at both ends of the manifold cold start then a drive and will post the results.
Anyone input is welcome...
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Ok so I didn't do this yet. But results next weekend! If its not raining!
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Anyone have any updates regaurding the heat barrier gasket yet? I had one on but took it off (never ran) I hear they crack and get brittle from heat causing boost leaks.