Author Topic: Interesting Oil Article from FP  (Read 1548 times)


Offline daniel Dee

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 07:26:16 am »
I have experienced several bearing failures in engines before so
I am not surprise at all...

I used Royal Purple 20w-50 in my TSI  but RG put in their 5w-30 and I have been diluting it with more 20w-50 since.
I agreed that 20w-50 is like pancake syrup when it is cold so warm up is required.

For the track 20w-50 or more ,,,,I hate bearing failure.

 
92 AWD TSI 5spd<br />Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 1050cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold.666 AWHP@39psi (RG Dyno 2010). New mods E85, BF cams, 72mm turbo, 70mm throttle body />90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec 99 Audi A4 quad 5sp 2018 Civicturbo 6sp ktuner

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 07:30:59 am »
you should monitor oil  temps while choosing oil weights for your car.  if the oil never comes up to temp, its also hard on the bearings.  Too thin is bad but so is too thick.

There is an EXCELLENT article in GRM about it.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Ken Hawkins

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 05:34:38 pm »
IIIInnnnnteresting....

Over at the Rennlist forums, for years you could start a flame-war over oil recommendations for the 928. It has essentially finally sorted out that Mobil 1 should be verboten for anything other than your grandma's Hyundai...

In the 928 world there is a common failure of one of the con-rod bearings which had been blamed on improper drilling of oil galleys in crank. Others never experienced this problem despite having the same year/engine. Seems that oil brand really does make a difference.

Ken
1a TSi AWD RallyX champeeeen
'80 928 DD & Trackster
'78 928 trak project
"I once gave a rat's ass; nobody cared. Except the rat"

Offline Trevor Robinson

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 03:34:00 pm »
rowing old is mandatory, growing up is optional!!

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 05:01:53 pm »
Interesting article, but the test was conducted on a high performance 500whp+ turbo. 

Would this mean Mobil 1 10W-30 is still shit for stock or mid range (16g/T28) modified cars?  Somehow I don't think so but I maybe wrong.

I use Mobil 1, but if Royal Purple was cheaper, I probably choose that over Mobil 1 ~ But I may actually go for it in my next oil change since I am choosing longer milage to break in the oil before change.  So the little extra maybe worth it.  Dunno.


Offline John Hartman

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 07:08:29 pm »
Mobile has been getting a bad rap the last few years.  Not sure if its deserved or not, but I have seen several tests that show its not as good as many other oils.

FWIW I run Royal P in the Talon and Castrol Syntec in the Mazda.

But then some higher end cars reccommend Mobile from the factory.  Hell its right on the oil cap on Vettes and has been for years.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline KevinBuckham

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 12:14:11 am »
From what I understand this was written to target the failures of the EVO FP Black and similar turbos (standard bearing) as they were failing quickly for some people due to poor oiling.  I also think this helps explain why so many end up with bearing and oil pump failures.  Now we can add Mobil1 to the list of DSM oiling issues:

- oil trapped in the head (esp. 6 bolt heads)
- pickups sucking air (high G's, oil is all in the head)
- extremely low idle oil pressure in some DSMs
- stuck oil squirters
- oil just isn't providing enough protection for the severe conditions we subject it to (Mobil1 and similar on-road synthetic oils)

In regards to manufacturers still recommending Mobil1, first Mobil1 tends to be a bit thinner than competitors helping fuel economy numbers, and secondly I'll bet the bearing area in any current production car takes into account the lesser properties of the current generation of catalytic converter safe (and fuel efficiency targeted) engine oils.  I don't think there is any volume manufacturer or synthetic oil that would pass muster for a vehicle manufacturer to use (catalytic converter compatibility, fuel economy, consistency, availability, and high volume production) that provides appreciably better protection than Mobil1. 

For us, we can switch to a high zinc and phosphorous combination oil, as we either don't care about cat longevity and/or we care more about engine protection.  I wonder how sludge build up is with these racing oils as they have far less detergent additives.  I have a feeling I would be most happy with a oil a little more street friendly, and replace my oil for track duty.

Offline Jason Harwood

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 10:04:02 am »
I use Motul.

88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 98MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
97' CR-V Winter Beater.
04' WRB WRX STI

Offline daniel Dee

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 08:04:58 pm »
A spun bearing will break your heart and maybe your bank account..
My bearings look like 100,000 KM after just 1 year so I will do anything to protect my motor bearings.
So Bearing load protection is first.

Motor oil was originally design to protect the motor
and high performance engines need the most protection.
So fuel economy,,ease of cold starting...long life ..will come second in my choice of motor oil.


92 AWD TSI 5spd<br />Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 1050cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold.666 AWHP@39psi (RG Dyno 2010). New mods E85, BF cams, 72mm turbo, 70mm throttle body />90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec 99 Audi A4 quad 5sp 2018 Civicturbo 6sp ktuner

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 08:16:41 pm »
Dan, thicker is not always better, again, the oil has to come up to temp.

91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Jason Harwood

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Re: Interesting Oil Article from FP
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 07:27:25 am »
Dan, thicker is not always better, again, the oil has to come up to temp.



Correct.

I've never experienced bearing failure as I have always ran the proper oils designed for my automobile.
88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 98MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
97' CR-V Winter Beater.
04' WRB WRX STI