Performance tires

[Richard Steger]

Since the "What did you do for your talon this weekend?" thread contains alot of talk about tires lately, I thought I'd post some great articles on tire comparisons that I read in Car and Driver this past year.  Although the new Hankook Ventus RS3 was unavailable for this test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the_michelin_ps2-comparison_tests
 if price is a factor, then the Hankooks can't be beat. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q2/track-tire_test_bfgoodrich_toyo_michelin_and_yokohama_tires_rated-gear_box
This article tests a few R compound tires.
 I found it interesting that the local Corvette guys who organize the autocrossing, favor the BFGoodrich g-Force R1 but the article indicates that all the R compound tires take a lap or 2 on a road course to get up to temperature, something which isn't possible with autocrossing.  Sure they might do a quick burnout to heat up the rears but the fronts wouldn't be getting heat untill the end of their run through the cones, if then.  I wonder if they'd get better results from the Ultra High performance tires in the first article than the R compounds since they seem to be predictably grippy from cold and even in the wet (Michelin ps2, Hankook and Dunlop).  I've seen videos of you Vancouver Islanders autocrossing in the rain, right?

[CamWeiss]

Car and Driver couldn't rate a tire if you did it for them.

Grassroots Motorsports is what I'd refer to - They've got four fairly current tire tests up on their site, and they've got a couple recently completed - Including wet weather testing in their current November issue.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/category/wheels-tires/

PS - There are R Comps, and there are R Comps built for autocross. The Advan AO48, R888, R-1, etc will take a couple autocross runs to get heat in them. Kumho Ecsta V710, Victoracer, Hoosier A6, and similar will give you the highest performance in a dry autocross environment, but tire life is short. A Corvette guy with VMSC runs a big set of A6's - 295 or 315mm wide, I think - And he's worked out his cost PER RUN to be somewhere in the area of $15, based on an outlay of ~$1700 for a set (presumably mounted, and heat cycled).

[John Hartman]

+1 on Car and Driver vs GRM for things like tire testing.  C&D are good for new car tests etc, but they are not autox or road course guys.  GRM was started by a couple of guys in the early 80s and was called Autox. 

Thats pretty much all those guys do is build autox and road course cars, and then tune and drive them.

GRM usually does 1-3 tire tests a year.

And no matter if autox is poo-pooed as "parking lot" racing, its the closest thing to actual street performance a regular car will experience.

[Richard Steger]

Thanks Cam and John.  I have been schooled!

[CamWeiss]

I'm too lazy to go look it up in the rulebook, but from memory, the highest speeds attained by the fastest group of cars at an autocross should not be more than ~60mph. It's very close to common street conditions (In addition to often dirty, wet, and cold pavement).

That said, very few people make full use of their tires' capabilities. Not everyone - Few, really - Needs to have a top of the line performance tire. There are plenty of entirely competent, capable tires out there that are better for handling wet and dirty conditions that are often dirt cheap - The Falken Ziex 912 (I'm running them right now), Kumho Ecsta SPT, and BFG G-force Sport all come to mind.

[John Hartman]

not that I am doubting you at all Cam, as you know this topic to a much greater extent than I, but I know for a fact that I was in 3rd gear in my Talon at the one autox I took it too.  Last straight before the braking box, coming out of a large sweeper.  Redlined 2nd(102km/h) and pulled for a few seconds in 3rd before a hard brake application.

And this was back when my car was a mid 13 second car.  If I could keep the power under control on the sweeper now, I know I would be way up in 3rd gear at the end of that same straight.

[Richard Steger]

The speed attainable by any car would depend alot on the layout of the course that the organizers choose for a given event or the size of the venue they have to stage it.  The autocrosses I've driven, watched in PG, the z06 vettes only snick into second briefly before braking otherwise they hit their rev limiter in first, which is 59 mph.  So, John, that must have been a long, relatively open course compared to the ones Cam and I have experienced.

[KevinBuckham]

Back in the day, we didn't have the sissy speed rules. Too bad insurance doesn't let you run that way now.  Supposedly no one was exceeding 100 km/h, but I was at the top of 3rd half way down the straight and a bit into 4th before finding out where the ABS limits are.  I've seen video of autox events in the US and they look far faster than what we run here.

I am actually looking for new street tires now and I'm going to attempt to find something with a forgiving limit and some adhesion in the cold and wet.

[CamWeiss]

I too have run a couple autocrosses where I'm into third - One was well into third, with the Porsche Club.
They're not common though - Sometimes a course design just ends up being faster than anticipated. Sometimes the rules are stretched a bit.

Kevin, that would imply that your car is getting close to being road ready? I'll have to wander down the street and say hello sometime.