The Epic decision for suspension for the 1g AWD ***Updated*** need advice

[Chad Giffen]

The prices above are rough estimates with brokerage, taxers, shipping etc.

Well I plan to buy coilovers before the summer, and would like to get some opinions. I have been doing a lot of reading and there are a lot of mixed reviews between the two.

Some of the facts....

1) Ksports warranty procedure supposidly sucks
2) Ksports have some documented cases of blowing out (Dsm talk)
3) Megans are basically the same as ksport coilovers?
4) Coilovers only have 2" of travel vs the 4" stock?
5) Coilovers more likely to fail and leak then a regular strut like KYB?

Also, interestingly, there has been someone who has discovered the coilovers for 1g's in general only have about 2-2.5" of travel vs the 4"+ on stock struts. I also assume Kyb AGX's would have more travel as well.

Yan Tang would be good to comment because he has had both KYB AGX's and now coilovers....


From my understanding, coilovers offer a WAY stiffer ride. But how stiff?!?!  Like feeling every bump on the road? Uncomfortable for a daily driver? I dont want my car feeling like its bottoming out all the time....

Or maybe be more conservative and go with KYB AGX's for a softer, less bumpy ride.

Comments.


The scope of the vote is weighing price, comfort as a daily driver, and performance.


Chad

[John Hartman]

Ground Control coilovers with Koni shocks might be something you want to look at as well.

For actual handling, leave the Teins out of it.  At this price point the other stuff is as good or better.

oh and AGX shocks, regardless of the springs are very harsh.  Even on all the softest settings they are hard.  On medium they are pretty nasty and on the harder settings, they are bone jarring.

I have run them with stock springs, H&R Sports, Canuck Motorsport and I think one other spring setup and they were at best only a bit nicer than my current setup JIC kidney busters.  At worst they were actually worse than what I am running now and didn't handle as well.

With Carmens old 1g, we had stock springs over Koni yellows and it rode near to stock, almost not distinguishable from good stock suspension, but it handled very well.  In bumpy corners it was probably better than my current suspension.  Not as good on flat roads by any means, but still very good.

[daniel sanat]

I really like my teins as they are really adjustable , and they blew away the shitty kyb non adjustables and blown stock rears lol. John what did you find was wrong with the trind handling wise?

[Dave Ingraham]

To throw another coilover company out there is BC Racing.   They will make a custom spring rate for you at no extra charge, for about the same price.

I can say that Four Function in Kelowna we have sold both manufactures Megan and K-sport, and there really about the same.   Just about every drift car in Kelowna has a set of Megan coilovers in it and they stand up well.   We know a rally team in Kelowna that uses K-sport and loves them.   

If it was me doing it.   I would do the KYB's with H&R springs.   H&R makes a really good spring that gives you some drop without getting a really rough ride.   If you want top of the line than Koni and H&R's would be the way to go, that is koni makes and application for your car.   

[Chad Giffen]

Apparently Koni Yellows have been discontinued for the 1g awd

[Dave Ingraham]

Apparently Koni Yellows have been discontinued for the 1g awd

Yes and no.   You can get koni yellows inserts for KYB struts housings according to koni web site.   KYB's are a good product aswell.     

[John Hartman]

The Teins, while good, at this price point($1k or less), there are other solutions that are better.  10-15 years ago, they were pretty good, but others have come along since.

I personally have not had any Tein products on my own cars, but before I bought my set of JIC coil overs I did ALOT of research, and came to the conclusion that unless you spent alot more than what is being talked about here, there were several other options that were better.  I did look at them, and would have bought some had I found that they were as good as or better than some of the other top performing coil overs.

And since, I have not seen any serious or semi serious competetive autox or road course car that uses thier cheaper line of coil overs.  not to say that there isn't any, but I have not seen any, and especially on the DSM platform.

And yes, for the cost, KYB shocks are good.  But not really performance in the same vein as Koni, Bilstein, Spax etc.  Definately better than Munroe etc tho.  And AGX are very harsh on the firm settings.

[Shane Sawatzki]

if you go with teins dont get the super streets... thats what i have in my GTR and the only reason i got them is i got them 2nd hand for about 500$. good deal at the time, but if i were to do it again id get atleast the tein flex coilovers, something that is FULL HEIGHT adjustable so you can adjust the height with the shock. Alot of the cheaper coilovers sure you can lower the car as much as you want but the lower you go, the stiffer the springs are being compressed and therefore you have a dsm skateboard thats gunna be super super stiff. Atleast with a coilover that is fully height adjustable it is easy to maintain a softer spring rate making it a more friendly daily driver.

Tein Superstreets : (not fully height adjustable, notice 2 adjuster rings for only the spring.)



Tein Type Flex : (note you can adjust the height of the shock)

[daniel Dee]

I brought my Ksports 2 years ago for $700 shipped..
While great handling is not my goal...
It made my car controllable as it had torque steer under power (>500 HP)
and the front end would not come down before.
It tracks straight even at 660HP.
It also now handles speed bumps better than before.

But for autocross I heard they are not durable.

I also have KYB's with aftermarket drop coils.. not even in the same class.

[Chad Giffen]

Insert Quote
if you go with teins dont get the super streets... thats what i have in my GTR and the only reason i got them is i got them 2nd hand for about 500$. good deal at the time, but if i were to do it again id get atleast the tein flex coilovers, something that is FULL HEIGHT adjustable so you can adjust the height with the shock. Alot of the cheaper coilovers sure you can lower the car as much as you want but the lower you go, the stiffer the springs are being compressed and therefore you have a dsm skateboard thats gunna be super super stiff. Atleast with a coilover that is fully height adjustable it is easy to maintain a softer spring rate making it a more friendly daily driver.

Tein Superstreets : (not fully height adjustable, notice 2 adjuster rings for only the spring.)



Tein Type Flex : (note you can adjust the height of the shock)

Ya they dont make tein flex coilovers for 1g AWD Shane

I brought my Ksports 2 years ago for $700 shipped..
While great handling is not my goal...
It made my car controllable as it had torque steer under power (>500 HP)
and the front end would not come down before.
It tracks straight even at 660HP.
It also now handles speed bumps better than before.

But for autocross I heard they are not durable.

I also have KYB's with aftermarket drop coils.. not even in the same class.

Could you comment on the KYB's more Daniel? Why not in the same class? and to clarify, Ksports are only good for holding the front end down and not necessarily handling?

[yan tang]

Hey Chad, sorry I'm not gonna be too much help cuz I actually havent made the plunge and gone to coilovers yet. I've had eibach pro kit springs with kyb agx's which rode really rough and super stiff at almost any setting and now I'm currently using eibach sportlines with koni yellow inserts front and rear. Although the koni feel like a much more comfortable shock, when combined with the sportline springs, the ride is still quite stiff. I'm sure if the koni's were paired with a more suitable spring, the ride comfort and handling would be more than most other combos would offer. I would try the ground control coilovers with koni yellows, I've heard nothing but good things about that setup.

[Remi Raymond]

FYI Koni has stopped producing the rear shock full stop - no insert option.

Beats me why they would only make the front and not the rear....?

[CamWeiss]

I'll chime in with my .02

Everything you've listed likely has junk for dampers. I KNOW KYB's are junk, I've personally blown a pair and been unimpressed while doing so. Cheap coilovers are cheap coilovers, period. I wouldn't trust K-Sports to hold up or perform well, the Megans and Teins both have better names to them, but performance wise still won't measure up...
To the Koni/Ground Control setup.

Yes, I'm aware that Koni has stopped production of their rear shock for 1G's.

Koni makes dampers. They're damn good at it. Here's my plan. Front: Koni Yellow, Ground Control, 450# spring, camber plate, some poly here and there. Rear: KYB AGX (as I already have them, otherwise I'd hunt down used Konis as they're rebuildable and worth doing so), Ground Control, 350# spring. You can also change springs on the cheap for this setup, as it uses a standard 2.5" spring... Opens you up to lots of possibilities, Eibach, Hypercoil, etc. Any spring rate you want.

The one thing I don't like about the rear application for Konis is that in order to adjust the shock, you've got to remove it from the vehicle. You have to compress + twist for adjustment. The KYB, on the other hand, is externally adjustable (although the adjustment isn't exactly linear).

The level of quality for dampening on a Koni/GC combo, so I've heard, is about equal to a coilover costing double... So you're getting pretty good bang for your buck.

Alignment is the other obvious part to how your car will handle with any suspension. Go aggressive for caster and camber, stay neutral for toe on a street car.

As for installation, I haven't got any input for you. Coilovers will likely be easier. I'm just getting into ordering parts for my GC/Koni combo in the next month.

[Jason Harwood]

Tein's are great but pricey.

I have K-Sports in my Acura I had K-Sports in my Mazda before.
Great bang for buck. They are prone to leaking, which is why they come with a decent replacement warranty.
Just make sure you dont use the stock took to secure the height of the strutt and spring. Use a punch and a hammer to make sure it secures in place. or else it will start "adjusting" its self.

My car handles incredibly with them. I also have used TEIN's in the past. They are awesome if you're willing to blow the money. Get the EDFC's and adjust the ride inside the car.

[Dan Harshey]

Ive had both KYB AGX's and now i have Megan Racing coilovers.  

I'd say for daily driving, no racing, the KYB's are ok. Fairly comfortable ride on the street, expect it to be rougher ride with a lowering spring of course.

The Megan Racing coilovers however are quite harsh on the road.  I daily drive my car, and have learnt to avoid bumps using this setup.  They can be a bit bouncy, and you'll feel almost every bump in the road.  That being said, compared to the KYB's in an Autocross event or Solosprint race, they are like night and day.  At speed on a course they handle quite well.

With that being said, I'd also suggest the Ground Control coilovers with Koni shocks.  I've heard good things about this combo, and have seen a 1G Talon out at the track that is beyond impressive with this setup.

Feel free to give me a shout, you can come take a spin in my car to feel how the Megans ride if you want.

P.S. Take Cams advice, he has done a lot of research on this topic, and the setup he mentions is close to the quick 1G Talon at the track.