Author Topic: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.  (Read 8291 times)

Offline Brett Haviland

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6530
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 09:55:56 pm »
Lol.  Dan,  the manifold is turbulent.  Its a nice piece, but its not ideal.   You shouldnt have different length runners, especially short runners.  The fact being that longer runners allow for more than one exhaust pulse to be travelling down the pipe at a time and evenly distribute it into the collector.  The runners are so short that it creates turbulence amoung all 4 runners. They backpressure due to the last runner that pulsed is now distributing its exhaust gases back through a runner that is empty for that split second.  the stock manifold and FP manifold have the runners too short!

Looks really cool tho!   :)



ah shit, who cares about shit like that when u can still make 500 WHP on a evo III mani or FP race mani. hahah ;)
I like Colts.  Turbo Colts.

Offline Robert Vorley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 10:31:41 pm »
ah shit, who cares about shit like that when u can still make 500 WHP on a evo III mani or FP race mani. hahah ;)

QFT

Lyle is running an FP, but I wonder how much easier getting to 500 would be with a nice shiny tubular mani?  :D 
1997 Eagle Talon AWD,
461 awhp, 357 tq @ 28 psi on RG's "heart-breaker" Mustang Dyno

Offline Chad Giffen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1016
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 10:43:47 pm »
Quote
the manifold is turbulent

Sorry to budge in here, but I don't care what manifold you have on there....       the flow will ALWAYS be turbulent.
1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD Electric Blue
Evo III 16g
Stock Boost

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 11:13:36 pm »
The nature of a manifold.   yes,     but some utilize gas pressures better   ;)

Im speaking in terms of buying a new manifold.     Im not saying that anyone is stupid for having one!  they are super cheap and you can still make large hp numbers.   But for me I would prefer to research the efficiency in the go fast parts I buy.  You could probably scare the shit out of someone in a dsm with a log manifold...  lol          Peak hp is peak hp.    mid range is fun to.
337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Robert Vorley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 11:05:09 pm »
By "turbulence", I think Jordan was getting at "pulse tuning" the exhaust pressure waves too maximize efficiency by degrees, since turbulence can never be eliminated entirely.   Any unnecessary exhaust restrictions, intersections, bends, and reductions in cross section will slow the flow by introducing greater turbulence which will ultimately reduce the volumetric efficiency. 

Sources of turbulence that are inherent to a particular mani's design, like FP's (stock, Hafe, Evo III), typically use a shallow intersection for the merge collector just before entering the turbo with unequal length short runners.  The FP design is conveniently packaged and casting sure helps keep production costs down, plus the reliability of cast manifolds is better than that of any similarly priced tubular manifold.  Therefore, for most applications the FP is probably worth the trade-offs in ultimate performance.       

By comparison the MAP mani uses larger diameter runners (significantly larger than used on a Full Race mani), which should raise the engine speed at which the max torque will occur.  The longer primary runners should improve low-midrange power compared with an FP mani.  Of course the cams, intake mani, porting, etc. will effect the pulse timing and the subsequent negative pressure wave, but no one said it was going to be easy!  :)   
 
 
1997 Eagle Talon AWD,
461 awhp, 357 tq @ 28 psi on RG's "heart-breaker" Mustang Dyno

Offline John Hartman

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17539
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2012, 08:58:49 pm »
holy cubic dollars lately Jordan!

I wouldn't say the FP cast manifold is "shit' per se.  it fits well, it doesn't crack, its cheap, its light, it doesn't need bracing, it keeps heat in better than tubes and it flows better than the stock manifold.

Of course its not as good as a well made tubular one, but its still not "shit"  :)
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2012, 09:17:01 pm »
LOL!   you have to pay to play. I had a goal when I bought the car.  Ive found some good deals along the way.

mint condition fp4r cams for 300 bux?   would you buy them ;) ?...   I did.

The maperformance manifold is actually cheap for what it is.  and yes you are correct.  the FP manifold isnt as bad as I made it out to be,  but it isnt ideal.   I totally understand why people buy them.  They are a definite improvement over stock.   But the whole 'Race' tag seems a bit much for a manifold that has some setbacks to its design. 
337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Brett Haviland

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6530
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2012, 10:40:19 pm »
and the cracking, heat enducing, tight fit, exspensive tubular manifolds dont have setbacks to its design either?
I like Colts.  Turbo Colts.

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2012, 11:31:34 pm »
as far as efficiency goes,   you cant beat tubular.  My only point.
337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 04:44:50 pm »
I bought the Maperformance T3 manifold today   :)
I look forward to seeing how it performs on the dyno.  It should spool the Gt30r quickly  ;D
Comes with a lifetime warranty too!
In my mind, its the best bang for the buck manifold out there.

337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Robert Vorley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 05:38:41 pm »
I would love to know how many heat cycles that guy gets before his rad hose blows!  Hahahaha...

Oh ya, congrats.  Hey why didn't you get the Fp RACE mani instead?  ;)
1997 Eagle Talon AWD,
461 awhp, 357 tq @ 28 psi on RG's "heart-breaker" Mustang Dyno

Offline Matt Vangaalen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
  • VangaBuilt
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 06:28:45 pm »
Should I be concerned with the over size runners of the fp "race" manifold compared to the slightly ported 2g head?
6 bolt short block (.02 over evo9 pistons). Straight cut oil pump gears. Ported 2g head and manifolds, GSC S1 cams(adjustable gears), undercut SS valves, bronze guides, Manley springs. Fp's Big T28, stock 02 into 2.5 downpipe, 3" from the flex section back. Apex'i N1 muffler. ETS fmic. 1g bov. 1g throttle body. 255lph pump. 660cc injectors. AFPR. SD on Link V3. 345 ft lbs 345 hp.

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 06:35:05 pm »
lol!  no doubt.  But Im pretty sure thats a 2g in the pic. My 1g rad has better spacing.



Equal length runners, tubular, great one piece collector with a wg flange incorporated. I like that it has the shortest route possible for the wg termination.   Thats why I didnt go FP race.
337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Jordan Kruger

  • Senior Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2210
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2012, 06:37:52 pm »
Matt   -   Youll be fine with that mani and the port size difference.  Its better that the header has bigger ports than the head, rather than smaller. If there was a step, you would get mega hot spots on the manifold, resulting in warping and cracking.

There are plenty of guys making good power on the FP manifold with absolutely no problems.
337awhp.  ---> 500 awhp ? =)

Replacing parts since early 2010.

Offline Matt Vangaalen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
  • VangaBuilt
Re: Xtreme Fabrications/Performance Services AND Maperformance.
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2012, 05:27:03 am »
I am concerned that the air will roll back on the step of the smaller head runner. If only my head wasn't already on, and I had a flow bench.
6 bolt short block (.02 over evo9 pistons). Straight cut oil pump gears. Ported 2g head and manifolds, GSC S1 cams(adjustable gears), undercut SS valves, bronze guides, Manley springs. Fp's Big T28, stock 02 into 2.5 downpipe, 3" from the flex section back. Apex'i N1 muffler. ETS fmic. 1g bov. 1g throttle body. 255lph pump. 660cc injectors. AFPR. SD on Link V3. 345 ft lbs 345 hp.