Honda Argument with Friend

[Ivan Skare]

My friend, who is obsessed with Honda and defends them to the bone, is telling me a stock Honda motor will produce more HP than the 4G63 at the same boost level. I told him he was out of his mind. He also goes onto say that torque means nothing in drag racing, and that a 300hp car with 200ft/lbs of torque will run the same time as a 300hp with 300ft/lbs of torque (say both cars are indentical). This guy is outta his freakin mind. Furthermore, he goes onto say that Honda motors are better than the 4G63 in EVERY way.

FURTHERMORE, and I quote "when you throw boost at it (B18C) it performs far more efficiently than a motor that was built for boost, its a simple concept man." Adding to this, he says that RPMS are everything, which I know for a fact ARE NOT.

FURTHERMORE, he says that a B18C head outflows a 4G63 head. I highly doubt that, but I could be wrong.

More quotes:

"If Mitsubishi didn't need variable valve timing, why do they have it now? They obviously need it, and the heads don't flow at all, a Honda at 10 psi is the same shit as a dsm at 20 psi, the efficiency of the DSM heads are complete trash, they relied way too much in the turbo and didn't develop the motor at all".

"Low compession isnt efficient. Think of it this way man, a 16g on a Honda motor can make 400whp, a 16g on a 4g63 can make 300whp max, thats the best comparison I can give you, its all about flow."

I basically told him if he cranks the boost on that stock Honda motor he's gonna blow something up. And that his boost is limited to knock if his compression is too high.

[Wasay Shaikh]

uh.. i dont drag race or anything.. but from what i know.. yes horsepower obviously helps.. but isnt drag racer like... how fast your car can accelerate? and thats all torque.. shoulda told him that. if they can easily handle it why hasnt honda made a turbo car.. what was there last turbo car made by honda anyways? n from that message im guessing hes a v-tak freak? lol does he know exacttllyyy what v-tak is.. or is his theroy "its boost, but honda style" you put turbo on a b18c, run more then 10-12 psi without internals tuned up, defenitly will blow something---happened to a buddies friend

but lol you should race him in your dsm.. n then he'll stop talking

[Ryan Coft]

I love Honda people, bench racing ftl

[Joliesa Lepp]

I severly hope you bring this guy to the FVT. PLEASE. I would aboslutely love to watch someone take him for a ride in a good tuned dsm at 20 psi. Poor boy would shit his pants. 

[Remi Raymond]

Ok...

First off using Torque in that argument is irrelevant because the actual torque a car uses to accelerate is mostly a factor of gearing so on the whole "torque gets you down the strip thing" just bugs me, from both sides of the argument

What ACTUALLY matters is area under the curve. Last I checked a 300hp honda was pretty peaky, even with a really nicely sized turbo and lets face it, most people chase dyno numbers not response and area under the curve.

all that said, obviously an engine designed to see forced induction will have better results...
and also saying "10 psi on a honda vs 20 psi on a dsm" is retarded because 10 psi from one turbo can't even be compared to 10 psi on another turbo even if they're on the same engine.

It is quite literally like measuring tires by psi... "damn those tires have 40psi, they are so much faster than those tires that have 35psi in them"
 
It's just a measure of pressure, it says nothing of the actual O2 that is being fed into the engine (or the grip of the tires)
Thats why as little as 10psi on a 16g can max a stock dsm's fuel system, but 18psi on 14b can barely.

If your honda vs 4g63 friend really keeps talking ask him if honda engines are so born to be a turbo why they have yet to make a turbo car (I'm not counting the RDX, that jet ski they made once or that old turbo honda bike)

Then ask him how many honda engines were in production for over 14 years across many generations of the most successful rally cars and budget performance cars of the last 50 years...  

[andrew volcz]

... get new friends OR discuss other topics!   

[Ivan Skare]

The guy really doesn't know what he's talking about.

For him to down talk the 4G63 is just foolish. Most Honda guys ADMIT that the 4G is an awesome motor.

[Ivan Skare]

... get new friends OR discuss other topics!   

Why not discuss this topic? This is a DSM forum, and I am discussing what the guy was arguing about. Just wanted some of the members to read what the guy was saying.

Is there something wrong with that?

[Joliesa Lepp]

... get new friends OR discuss other topics!   

Why not discuss this topic? This is a DSM forum, and I am discussing what the guy was arguing about. Just wanted some of the members to read what the guy was saying.

Is there something wrong with that?

I think he was saying that you could discuss other topics with your friend, don't think he meant not on here. Obviously you're going to get a one-sided arguement here, because we all know what the 4G63 motors do (or have a basic knowlege, like I do  ) I don't think it was a knock on your topic.

Could be wrong. FIGHT! 

[Matt Fredrikson]

I love how all and I mean ALL Honda guys talk about boost in terms of psi and not flow. Even the ones that should know better lol. It's stupid to compare psi vs psi on engine vs engine. Your psi is not only dictated by turbo size but by engine displacement and piping size as well as sample location. Flow is by far more important and in fact I look at psi as nothing more than a relative number for each car to use to base your adjustments on.

The fact that mitsu added there own vvt MIVEC or whatever has nothing to do with power and everything to do with fuel economy, weird how 20 years later all the hoda crowd had yet to see that vtec was made to do just that and was never about making power it was in fact about restricting it.

[Brett Haviland]

I bet if you did a test... Took a honda B18C with  a 16G on it.... with supporting fuel mods/intercooler/exhuast it would make MORE Horesepower then a DSM with a 16G and supporting mods.

Granted the DSM will have a much more streetable setup and better torque then the peaky powered B18C.

the B18C engine has more compression, and better design on the head design in that it has the varible valve timing, which definalty helps.

[Zach Holt]

I read nothing of this but hondas suck toss a deck a sub a muffler and a gauge that's almost usless and you have a Honda. 2 cents

[Zach Holt]

Ps I read it. Tell hum I have a car in the 20s psi wise and it pumps out 501 at all 4 on a mustang dyno so a flojet or what ever their called that mounts to the hub it would be in the 700s.  

Your friend should not be a friend aahahah what a knob.


Pss what remi said: I raced in dom last time. So rustangs and cumeros and I smoked them. Shit I even smoked a blue on blue on blue Shelby musyand a 2007 or somthing that has 400rwh and the same tq he ran 14 and I ran a 11.2 at 127 with no 2nd gear in my 501hp 380tq 20s psi talon. I had the 2nd fasted dom time and the 2nd highest mph. The other one was a 30G rustangs
with slicks ahahahah

your buddy is retarted  

[Brett Haviland]

in my 501hp 380tq 20s psi talon.

LIES!!

more like 30 psi zach

[GlenMartin]

when comparing against cars......dsm's vs honda's for example. with out an unbiased source there is never going to be a winner in this age old arguement.... camaro vs mustang, dsm vs honda, nissan vs toyota, and so on. its an age old debate and i dont think there ever will be a winner. i own both. origianally i built my honda as a joke. to make fun of honda people. ask matt it used to be my winter car, and we used to abuse it. then i fell in love with it. to a certain point i would say the honda with the same turbo running the same boost would kill the dsm. ie. my dsm maybe runs low 15's on 9 psi. my honda ran 13.68 on 9 psi with no fourth gear, and no 3rd from 6000-7500 rpms. (cltuch was slipping) matt fredrickson was there, who ever is going to call bullshit. i think brett was there too, dont know if he was actually paying attention to my car though. but like a couple people said there are so many variables in this arguement that its so hard to compare.

i ask zach though did your buddy or whom ever with the 500 hp drive to the track? any breakdowns? is it a daily driver? i know buddies who drive four hours to the track run low 11's in thier hondas, drive then drive them home, then to work everyday, and still get better gas mileage than a stock dsm. i really could care less about gas mileage.....just throwing that out there. in my honest opinion overall is a honda motor designed better. hell yes. stock for stock what motor is designed better for boost? the 4g63. would i feel more comfortable running 20 psi on a stock 4g63, or a stock honda motor? the 4g63. for one pass down the track which would be faster? dont know. my bet is on the honda. with same turbo and so on. blah blah.

honda motors flow ten times better than most engines.....they have to to get the hp they do out of such small displacement. (one statement of many i could make about honda engineering) variable vavle timing is hands down one of the best inventions in the car industry. every car company has since designed thier own version because it works so well.

honda vs 4g63? whatever.. your buddy might be an idiot he might not be....but the important thing is that on the honda forums right now, he is calling you the idiot. hahaha.


if honda ever made a turbo motor. it would be the end all in my opinion. those crazy little mofo's can make a motor. some of the abuse i have seen them put through amazes me. i am scared to drive my dsm cause i dont want it to break down.


i have heard pretty much everyone on this forum complain about gremlins, and heard comments like "hahah its a dsm its suppose to break blah blah." i love dsms. the looks the handling, the awd. but in all honesty from my personal experience you cant beat honda engineering.