Author Topic: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?  (Read 3142 times)

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« on: December 06, 2010, 12:17:18 pm »
There is a noticeable problem that I have observed with my car lately.  The fuel consumption on the car is HORRIBLE.
I have been monitoring it, and not really kicked the car.  Every shift is granny 2500rpm daily driving.

But yet the car seems to be using a lot - twice as much gas as it should be.

Now based on some rough online reviews, the car should put out about 21mpg (times that and get total 371.8miles for a 16.9gallon tank).

The tank holds 64L or 16.9 gallons of fuel.

So far, I have ran the car almost till empty.  I have ran only approx 150 miles (241km) so far.

I am not expecting this car to be running like a Honda, and its not exactly new and stock.  It has ghetto mods and running a bit rich, but would not be enough to drop fuel consumption to 50% of its norm.

Any suggestions where I should start looking to find out the cause?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:18:58 pm by Sy Haw Wong »

Offline andrew volcz

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 12:32:18 pm »
start with the basic maintenance if you havent done so already ... plugs, wires?, o2 sensors

if those are all good, you could look further into youre injectors or try to find any leaks in your lines

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 12:57:25 pm »
Thanks Andrew.

All basic maintenance has been done.  My plugs and wires are fine.  Plugs changed in July.  Fuel filter is new. 

Fuel lines - I have checked the lines from the filter to the rails.  Don't seem to be any leaks.  Also, if there are other leaks from the bottom of the car, I would assume there would be puddles and smell of fuel by now.

Only thing that I haven't really looked into are:

O2 sensors, I have not changed out (should change them I think).
Injectors, I do not know how to check those.  But usually I would assume they get clogged over time, not pissing fuel over time - yes no!?

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 01:44:06 pm »
Sy Haw

Does the car noticeably misfire?
Check the O2 sensor with an analogue multimeter if you can (or whatever other method is acceptable on a OBD2)
Do the same for your coolant temp sensors
Don't use ethanol modified fuels (run a bit richer)

If you have a dead O2 sensor it can still function at cruise and not throw a code. I've found the heaters typically go and they flatline at idle causing way too much fuel to be used.

You shouldn't be seeing 500kms on a tank. 350-400 is more like it.

Kristopher

Offline KevinBuckham

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 02:41:49 pm »
My 2G would get 320 - 350 km/tank from full to a bit after the fuel light came on.  The tank has a lot of reserve at that point though.    So your mileage is bad, but within reason of something simple like a dying O2 sensor or coolant temp input.

Offline Remi Raymond

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 02:55:04 pm »
Tough to find the source of this but good advice above, start with basic maintenance if anything is outstanding.
I had similar mileage on one of my dsm's and it ended up being due to a large vacuum leak at the intake manifold gasket.
When was the last time you did a boost leak test?
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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 03:34:04 pm »
odd i get 500+ kms/tank on my 2g.
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Offline Chad Giffen

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 03:39:03 pm »
For a 50L tank, I get:

300km if I stomp on it

400km if I drive like a granny


Been the same way for years
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Offline Dan Silburn

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 03:57:04 pm »
No way kevin please share how you achieve that!. Ive been averaging 350km per $55 dollars of chevron 94.

Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 05:33:17 pm »
my driving is primarily freeway, i never ever sit in traffic


16g (18psi) wally 255 comp 100s, 3" turbo back so its not like its stock, i'm very very anal about maintenance.
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Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 05:38:58 pm »
well going back to your fuel trim problems sy haw.

you put the restricter in the rear o2.  It could now be seeing a lean.. and adjusting your long term fuel trims to run pig rich when in fact its just seeing the "restricted" exhuast flow.

try disconnecting your battrey and seeing if the car runs better for a bit afterwards.

your sure you put the restricter on the rear o2 sensor correct?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 09:37:12 pm by Brett Haviland »
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Offline Kyle Kemp

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 05:54:58 pm »
I wish I get 200 miles and have nothing crazy on my car
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Offline Josh Royle

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 06:33:39 pm »
I get 200 miles on the nose everytime. Unless im running on the highway a lot ill get 220...
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Offline John Hartman

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 08:11:29 pm »
Brett the rear O2 sensor does absolutely nothing in terms of a/f adjustment.  It is there SOLEY to monitor the catalyst efficiency.

Personally if it were my car,(and I didn't have the tools I do) I would borrow a good generic scan tool and monitor a few things.

I would look closely at the ECU coolant temp sensor readouts.  See what its reading stone cold, on warmup, warm and hot.  Look a few times.  If its off what you know the actual temp to be or does not at least follow the temp guage on the dash, I would carefully check the connection/wiring to it and then, if that is good, replace the sensor.  Make sure you get the one for the ECU, not the gauge(if 2g cars are that way)

on that note, also make sure that the thermostat is not stuck/sticking open or partially open as if the engine never fully warms up, it wil use more fuel.  The ECU uses coolant temp as one of its variables for fuelling the car.

I would then look at the pre-cat O2 readings and see if it starts to cycle once its warmed up and also to see that it warms up fairly quickly.  The thing should be cycling in a few min, even in this weather.  The pattern should be a large analogue waveform(rounded peaks and valleys) that goes from close to 0v up to close to 5v each time(for the most part, some hashing/crappiness is ok).  This waveform should change frequency with RPM up to when it goes out of closed loop and flatlines.  If any of this is scetchy to you, replace it, but again, check the wiring and connections for corrosion, loose pins etc.

If the car is not misfiring or loosing obvious power, there is really no practical reason at this time to replace anything like plugs, wires, coil, etc.  Those types of parts will cause bad fuel economy when they cause noticable misfires and/or noticable lack of power.

You could also do a compression test of you have the equipment.  This can be important as no matter what else you do to the car, if the engine cylinders are not sealing, the car will not get good mileage, make good power(tho turbo cars can often mask that) or have low emissions.

And, lastly,  I would have the injectors cleaned at a good place.  Take them out and to a place, not have them flushed in the car.  While this does work, the ultrasonic cleaners are better and they can flow test them etc.  Put on a set of new O-rings etc and put them back in.  Maybe don't do this last either, unless you know the injectors have been professionally cleaned in the last couple of years, or are new in the last couple of year, its worth it anyways.  Its only a hun or a hun and a half.

Injectors CAN cause bad mileage without causing any misfires,  If the spray pattern is more like a garden hose with your thumb over it than a plant mister, you will get shitty mileage.  You will also pollute your catalyst over time, depending on how bad it is.

With a well tuned 2g I would think 500+km would not be that hard an achievement.  And that is not taking anything away from Kevin, as obviously he keeps his car in good shape  :)  I am able to get that and more out of my 1g car and it has only a 1g tank not a 2g tank.(10l less)

And, just another thing, in the winter, you get slightly less mileage due to colder temps densifying the air, allowing more fuel to be used most of the time.  That and longer warmups, more idling, more alternator use(lights on more, heater fan on high, rear defrost on more etc)

Also ethanol fuels take more mass of fuel to produce the same energy, so if you are using an E15 fuel(15% ethanol), then you are getting 60% of the energy out of that 15% of the mass of fuel.  Not huge, but noticable if you keep good track of your fuel economy.
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Offline Remi Raymond

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 08:56:44 pm »
well going back to your fuel trim problems sy haw.

you put the restricter in the rear o2.  It could now be seeing a lean.. and adjusting your long term fuel trims to run pig rich when in fact its just seeing the "restricted" exhuast flow.

try disconnecting your battrey and seeing if the car runs better for a bit afterwards.

 I was going to point out that the rear o2 isn't used to adjust fueling at all (and make fun of you for it) but then I remembered you work your ass off and have a family too.
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