Author Topic: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area  (Read 7755 times)

Offline Marke Bailey

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2011, 08:54:25 am »
+1 for Paul. I was gonna suggest that you look at the balance belt.
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Offline John Hartman

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2011, 12:25:15 pm »
could be a balance belt, but if its a ticking sound, combined with a sticking clutch pedal, and then the engine stops running, its classic crank walk symptoms.

Sorry to say.

I hope its your balance belt or the balancer seperating.  Much easier and cheaper.
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Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2011, 01:50:06 am »
Congrats Brett and Matt.  You both guessed right.

Good thing, no crankwalk.



Bad news... the timing belt's teeth shredded and the belt disintegrated on the bottom to the point it would not move the timing pulleys no more.  Balance belt looks good.  Now need to get a new belt and pray I did not do any damage to the valves or other parts.  But then again I didn't hear loud clacking sounds so pray nothing bad has happened.  

On the other hand...now since this needs to be done, I looked into the previous owner's receipt.  Last time the belt was done, the water pump and crank pulley were replaced only.  Should I be looking into replacing the oil pump also at this point?  I really do not know when was the last time or even if the oil pump was ever replaced.  What other things I should get done as a precaution now since work will be done in that area?

Thanks to Dan for givin me a hand tonight.  Couldn't have dived in and removed all these odd bolts and pulleys without your assistance.







« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 01:55:19 am by Sy Haw Wong »

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2011, 08:45:56 am »
ok, good to hear!!

now, get a new belt,(or even borrow a used but working belt) blow out all the dusty crap, and quickly toss the timing belt on and make sure the timing is correct, but don't install anything else right now.

Then quickly start it.  No you won't have power steering and your alternator won't be charging, so don't leave it run for a long time or drive it, but you need to know right now if you have any bent valves.  There is no use putting it all back togeather just to have to take it all apart again to pull the head.  Just time it up and see if its good, then if it is, put it back togeather. With a new belt if you borrowed a used one for the test.

I don't think you need to replace the oil pump unless with the belt off, you can feel any play in the oil pump sprocket up/down left/right.  There may be a small amount in/out.  Its not a maintenance part, its supposed to be good for life unless its obviously broken.

Do all the seals, pulleys, tensioners, both belts and depending on how old the water pump is, do it too.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Sheela krasnuik

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2011, 09:24:08 am »
My $10 is on the shaft behind the oil pump is seized. See if oil pump will turn freely, timing belts just dont loose teeth like that,  something stopped the belt and you ground them off.

Been there done this before, happened on my 6 bolt talon when it spun a bearing on the balance shaft behind the oil pump.  

 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 09:26:52 am by Sheela krasnuik »
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Offline John Hartman

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2011, 09:39:25 am »
MOST timing belts don't shed teeth like that.  Between Brett and I, we have seen many Contitech ones do it recently...
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2011, 12:50:34 pm »
Was it a contitech belt Sy haw?

unfortunaly.... every time i have seen that it resulted in bent valves.. and you said the motor would not turn over????  thats probably cuz the pistons and valves were hitting each other....


Shitty luck buddy.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 12:55:16 pm by Brett Haviland »
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Offline daniel Dee

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2011, 04:15:07 pm »
actually the motor does turn over....the cams however are not moving..
92 AWD TSI 5spd<br />Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 1050cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold.666 AWHP@39psi (RG Dyno 2010). New mods E85, BF cams, 72mm turbo, 70mm throttle body />90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec 99 Audi A4 quad 5sp 2018 Civicturbo 6sp ktuner

Offline Ryan Coft

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2011, 06:08:58 pm »
Oil pump failure > no oil in head > seized cams > crank shreds timing belt > bent valves and possibly ruined cams.

Sorry to say, but it happened to me

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2011, 06:27:42 pm »
Oil pump failure > no oil in head > seized cams > crank shreds timing belt > bent valves and possibly ruined cams.

Sorry to say, but it happened to me

I had a manual oil pressure gauge in my car, I am not 100% sure, but I could have sworn the pressure was normal around average 40psi before it died.

But I will check the oil pump, and hope for the best.

actually the motor does turn over....the cams however are not moving..

I am praying for a good sign on this one...hopefully.   :-[

Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2011, 06:45:05 pm »
were u able to identify the brand of belt...  cuz its its a contitech i would say that its more the problem with the belt...

also if the cranks not turning... then your oil pump is not tuning either.... so the oil light will stay on.. but also the engine will not run, so it wont wreck any of the bearings or anything....


Ill put my $10 on another failed contitech timing belt.  I bet if you take the belt off and look at the rest of the teeth you will see they are all separating from the belts body.  THe belt i took off Brandons car, and another one about a month before... ALL the teeth on the belt were separating.

95% chance the valves are bent....  5% chance they stopped at a point where it would allow the pistons to clear them.  Hopefully u have good luck!
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Offline daniel Dee

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2011, 07:43:50 pm »
were u able to identify the brand of belt...  cuz its its a contitech i would say that its more the problem with the belt...
Ill put my $10 on another failed contitech timing belt. 

Who makes the best timing belt then???   (I run a Greddy)
92 AWD TSI 5spd<br />Built motor ,AEM EMS, Arc2 cdi 1050cc&1000cc Staged injectors Billet S366 T4,top mount manifold.666 AWHP@39psi (RG Dyno 2010). New mods E85, BF cams, 72mm turbo, 70mm throttle body />90 TSI (gone), 95 TSI 5 spd sold, 93 Mazda 5sp(sold), 97 Acura 5spd Vtec 99 Audi A4 quad 5sp 2018 Civicturbo 6sp ktuner

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2011, 07:54:38 pm »
pretty much anything is ok except for Conti it seems like.  For these cars anyways.

But then RG has good luck with them...

OEM belts, Gates belts I would say. Maybe a Greddy or other Kevlar belt too.

You MAY get lucky Sy Haw.  Mattys car just did this recently.  Stripped em all off at the crank pulley end.  But his car still ran and once he put a new belt on it, he got it running.

What you need to do is to pull all 4 plugs(no compression makes for easier turning over of the engine), put a 17mm wrench on your cams and try to move them a little.  Don't turn them all the way over yet.  But just to make sure they will move freely.  And don't confuse valve spring tension with siezed caps.

Then if they turn, put a wrench on your crank pulley and rotate the crank till its not at TDC.  Look down each spark plug hole and have it so the pistons are all at the same level, about half way up.  none all the way up, none all the way down.  Now you can turn the cams all the way as long as the crank stays there.

now put that wrench back on the cam bolts and rotate each cam all the way around and make sure it seems ok.  If so, stop each one with the dowel pin up and timed basically correct.  The exhaust cam will probably want to sit slightly skewed counterclockwize, like one tooth out.

Then time up the crank pulley.

Then replace the bbelt, tbelt, all tensioners, all seals including cam seals, etc.  Make sure its tensioned correctly and in time after you rotate the engine.

Brett has a good way to do this quickly but I don't know it off the top of my head.

You can also pull your valve cover gasket and look at the cam caps.  If they are siezed you will see them either dry from so much friction heat that they burned off the oil, black from the same thing, or lots of aluminum piled up around each cap.  If this is obvious, start hunting for a head.  If its not visually obvious right away, pull one cap at a time and have a look at them for scoring, ANY metal filings/flakes/shavings etc.  If so, again, start looking for a head.  If they all look normal, coolio, get on with the timing belt job.

When the timing belt is off, try to see if there is any play in the oil pump bearing.  Look at the front balance shaft bearing too, for play.

And you may as well measure the crankshaft end play while its all apart.

Again, I wish you all the best and if you were closer, I could help you with some of this.  Most of it is easy, but you need to know what you are looking at/for.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Jordan Kruger

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2011, 08:46:12 pm »
Yikes   I may take my new contitech off pretty quick here  :-[
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Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Weird Lopping Sound from Timing Area
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2011, 08:54:14 pm »
yeah...  personally i wouldnlt run one more then 15 000 km's.

I have used the Beck Arnley belts for the last couple years and no problem with those,,, or OEM belts.
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