starter/wiring issues

[Graeme H Burvill]

So this is on my 86 325. Have had starting issues as of late, drove my car to the store, get back in the car and it wont start. i had power to everything but no start. Car won't take a jumpstart, so i had to tow it home. Get my charger on it which has an engine start function and it started up. Runs for a couple of days, then i come out of work the other day and it wont start again. had a bunch of guys helping me as well as a power outlet and my charger, but no matter what the engine wouldn't turn over. Also I am working with a brand new battery. Got some help to try and bump start it, with no luck at all. now when i turn the key i get nothing from the starter as if something has cut power to the starter itself.
So i jumped power from the two terminals on the starter, i hear a spinning/whirring sound from the solenoid, but no engagement of the starter motor whatsoever. Now what i dont get is that if its just a bad starter, why would it not bump start?
Gotta be some sort of wierd wiring issue, but everything looks good. re did my engine ground, checked all my connections at the starter. I havnt tested the starter draw on cranking. Or the ignition switch.

[GlenMartin]

i would say a combo of faulty starter and probably your alternator is taking a bath. if your having charging issues with a brand new battery i would suspect this part of the equation. check all fuses and relays. if they are all good then get a new starter. if your still having charging issues then also replace the alternator.

[Remi Raymond]

Very odd that it didn't bump start Graeme, my only thought is maybe when you tried bump starting it simply wasn't rolling fast enough/you gave up to soon?

Otherwise the only common issue I can think of would be ignition related.

[Graeme H Burvill]

i have checked the fuses and relays. All look good. replaced the starter relay with one i had lying around. Still nothing, tho the original relay looked perfect. i dont suspect charging issues right now. But i will keep that in mind. When i get her going again ill do an alternator test. i got a line on a tested good starter in duncan, but it will have to wait till payday and then shipping.

remi- i had a guy in the parking lot tow me around while i tried dumping the clutch in second. tried many times, but it wouldn't go. In reference to ignition related, what do you think i should test? i know how to remove my ignition switch but how do i test it, my manual doesnt tell me. Also if i want to do a current draw test on my starter do i hook up my multimeter to the two terminals on the starter? Can i even use a small multimeter for testing the starter?

[Remi Raymond]

i have checked the fuses and relays. All look good. replaced the starter relay with one i had lying around. Still nothing, tho the original relay looked perfect. i dont suspect charging issues right now. But i will keep that in mind. When i get her going again ill do an alternator test. i got a line on a tested good starter in duncan, but it will have to wait till payday and then shipping.

remi- i had a guy in the parking lot tow me around while i tried dumping the clutch in second. tried many times, but it wouldn't go. In reference to ignition related, what do you think i should test? i know how to remove my ignition switch but how do i test it, my manual doesnt tell me. Also if i want to do a current draw test on my starter do i hook up my multimeter to the two terminals on the starter? Can i even use a small multimeter for testing the starter?

I'm not as familiar with the e30 ignition/starter setup or I would give you some more specific advice. When you put your key to run can you do a code check? That will tell you if your ignition is even powering on your ECU/etc
(not sure if its the same method as on the e36 with the 5 time pedal stomp?)

 You don't have an alarm by chance do you?


 I don't like that your starter just happened to die at the same time your car is unable to turn over even with a bump start, I wonder if any of the 'pros' around here have seen that before, thats odd...

You say its a new battery - how new and have you tested it? Its worth ruling it out.

Your next step will have to be checking for spark and fuel. I would also check for 12v going to the main relay and the FP relay with the key to on (unless you can already hear your FP run with the key to on, not sure if the e30 primes the pump like the e36/34 do with the key to on)

As for draw testing your starter, never done it. Always just took it to a starter rebuild place (my starter failures were always... "dramatic" enough to not bother testing haha)


 

[Graeme H Burvill]

Yah unfortunately i dont have a way to read codes without an expensive bmw scanner. i get power to absolutely everything else in the car. My check engine light comes on (as usual), and goes out (as usual). the haynes manual is terrible for this car. I have heard the crank sensors can cause issues with starting so i am going to try and figure out where they are and how to test them. It seems like this could be a wierd electrical issue like a short or bad ground. Wiring issues certainly are not my fortee, well yet, anyways.

[Remi Raymond]

Yah unfortunately i dont have a way to read codes without an expensive bmw scanner. i get power to absolutely everything else in the car. My check engine light comes on (as usual), and goes out (as usual). the haynes manual is terrible for this car. I have heard the crank sensors can cause issues with starting so i am going to try and figure out where they are and how to test them. It seems like this could be a wierd electrical issue like a short or bad ground. Wiring issues certainly are not my fortee, well yet, anyways.

 Yeah your starter failing while this occurs definitely points to electrical short/failure somewhere.

If you were local I have a friend with an e30 scanner, but you live in PG or the island IIRC, so no luck there.
Definately going to have to spend quality time with the multi-meter, but you should be able to narrow it down to a general area (fuel, spark, charging etc...) pretty fast. e30's are pretty straightforward.

Good luck

[GlenMartin]

check and re check grounds. check for breaks in cables and so on. i was having a similiar problem after i did a battery relocation once, and i bought a new battery and alternator because the thing kept dying on me, and it turned out to be just a bad ground. turn the key to accessorie. everything would light up, as soon as i turned the key it would just blank right out. everything would die. check and re check grounds. check for contact, and erosion, and loose connections. you might not think it but bad grounds are resonsible for most electrical problems. especailly in a car that runs a lot of accessories, or draws a lot of voltage/amperage pre start up. big injectors, bigger fuel pumps, clock radioes, sunroof's you name it. the reason why it wont bomb start is because there is no electrical signal being sent to the ijnectors strong enough to tell them to pulse. there are a number of reasons why this will happen, bad ground, really really dead battery, faulty ignition and so on.

[Graeme H Burvill]

I had this issue once before and it turned out to be the main engine oil pan ground. But so far i can't see anything. definately gunna be a bad wire somewhere tho.

[Jordan Kruger]

I just went thru this a month ago.     Take your starter somewhere to get rebuilt.  I used Jays alternator and starter in surrey. Guy rebuilt it for 140$ with oem parts and he sandblasted it and painted it too.      These starters use magnets and they will eventually fall off and you will lose the ability to spin the starter depending on where its positioned when you turn the vehicle off.     to test this theory, roll your car down an incline in 5th gear. the engine and gears will turn to a different position , and your car will most likely start at some point.     With the magnet style starters that we have, you are unable to hit the starter to help it into position. you will only make more magnets come loose.    get it rebuilt.

[Remi Raymond]

I just went thru this a month ago.     Take your starter somewhere to get rebuilt.  I used Jays alternator and starter in surrey. Guy rebuilt it for 140$ with oem parts and he sandblasted it and painted it too.      These starters use magnets and they will eventually fall off and you will lose the ability to spin the starter depending on where its positioned when you turn the vehicle off.     to test this theory, roll your car down an incline in 5th gear. the engine and gears will turn to a different position , and your car will most likely start at some point.     With the magnet style starters that we have, you are unable to hit the starter to help it into position. you will only make more magnets come loose.    get it rebuilt.

Jordans thread reading skills for the fail

first, Its for his BMW
second, he doesn't live in van
third, the car can't start even when bumped so the starter is probably not the only issue.

Fourth, I love picking on people

[Jordan Kruger]

I dont get it      how can I be wrong!!!    I read the LAST post and then decided to repllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiiiii ic. HAHA 


see now YOU have answered all I need to know mang 

In this case, Remi prolly knows best cuz hes the bimmer guy. 

I hate tracing wiring issues, same as anyone...   Hope its something simple.

[GlenMartin]

I dont get it      how can I be wrong!!!    I read the LAST post and then decided to repllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiiiii ic. HAHA 


see now YOU have answered all I need to know mang 

In this case, Remi prolly knows best cuz hes the bimmer guy. 

I hate tracing wiring issues, same as anyone...   Hope its something simple.

i am willing to bet its your starter, or a bad ground.

[Jason Harwood]

Sounds like your classic German hot start issue.
Mostly found when relays go bad.

I couldnt tell you which one, but i'd suggest testing them 1 at a time.

[Graeme H Burvill]

Thanks guys. Definately a wierd german wiring issue. No doubt a bad ground or something somewhere. I may just grab a starter next week anyways. I'm pretty sure this unit is the original starter. Not saying its bad yet, but it will be one day. Until then i will keep testing.