starter/wiring issues

[Graeme H Burvill]

Put a new starter in, new ignition coil, all new fuses. Still nothing. Since I was replacing my relays with used ones that I wasn't sure about i will re test them all tomorrow. When I turn the key over the only thing that runs is the fuel pump (and all the lights and that crap), but it sounds kinda shitty, and how long is it supposed to run for? The thing will keep running until i turn the key off. Is this normal without actually starting, wouldnt that just be constantly dumping fuel in to my engine?

[John Hartman]

OK, sorry I didn't get to this sooner.

you need to get a test light(or make one), they are cheap.

get the car up in the air.

Hook the alligator clip end to a good ground, like the starter body, a non rusty, non painted part of the engine or something not isolated.

Have someone put the key to "run".  Not start, but all the way forward save for start.

touch the small terminal on the starter.  The smaller wire, not the big one. 

There should be a good voltage there, so the test light should light up as bright or really close to as bright as if is hooked across the battery itself.

Then leave the ground wire alone and poke the larger one.  Then tell your assistant to try to crank it and hold it there for a couple of seconds.  when the key is in "run" the test light should not be lit at all.  When its in "crank" it should be fully brightly lit, just like across the battery.

Report back.

Oh and be careful when you are under there because it might just start on you for shits and giggles. 

If both of these light up at the appropriate times, you need a starter.  If one or both of them does not light up at the right time, you need to trouble shoot farther up the wiring, all the way to the ignition switch itself and any/everything in between.

[Graeme H Burvill]

Ah! okay cool. Now the starter I just put in was tested good by bimmerparts on the island. So I am almost positive it is not the starter. Where I go now is a little foggy to me. I can test my main relays but what am I looking for, they are 4 prong relays. So should i have + on 2 prongs and ground on the other 2? And how do I test the relay itself should there be a resistance value?

Should I be looking at the ignition switch?

[John Hartman]

still test the wiring like I said.

This is the starting point.  Pardon unintentional but completely appropriate pun there...

This way you will know what part of the circuit to look at.  If there is power at the small wire, you know thats good.  If there is no(or lower than youd like, dim light) at the big wire, you know to look at that stuff.

[Graeme H Burvill]

hahaha that was a beautiful pun.
Will do john, I'll post my findings

[Graeme H Burvill]

SO I went out there with no assistant, turned the key to run, not crank. Behind the red wire is a smaller terminal that grounds to the starter motor. Beside it is the small wire that clips on to a little plate terminal which i could not get my test light in to. Should i pierce the wire? take the wire off the terminal and see if the wire is getting power? In every key position including key completely out of the ignition the black and red wire terminal has power. Waiting for my friend to come over so i can do a cranking test.

[John Hartman]

the little yellow/black is MOST likely the trigger wire for the starter.  The ground is thru the body of the starter, the little ground strap is irrelevant to this, unless its obviously broken or badly corroded at the connections.  I have never seen one of those cause a fault.

Just pull the little wire terminal off and probe inside it.  The big one is obvious.

However, some cars won't keep the starter energized for ever, so you need someone to key on and off so you can see it happen.

Key on in run, but not cranking, good bright light on your test light.  Key in crank, good bright light on your test light.  Test your light across the battery terminal in advance so you know what it looks like.  Remember it will be darker down below as well, for reference to the test.

[Graeme H Burvill]

So tested the smaller wire after taking it off the terminal. Key off, no power. key on no power. Cranking it got power, after cranking it had power in key on position.

The larger terminal with the black and red wires attached gets power constantly.

[John Hartman]

ok, something in your ignition switch or wiring from there.

I would suspect the switch.

Also, and sorry if I didn't see this earlier, but is your car an auto or manual?  Sometimes the auto shifter interlock safety will not allow the car to start if its fritzy.  If its auto, you can wiggle it in park and neutral.  More forceful forward and back as well as side to side over a regular wiggle.

Also, if its going to be a long wait for the switch, and/or you are broke, you can put in your own switch.  Run a wire from something with key on power to your battery with a switch in it.  Then you turn the key on, and hit the switch.  Of course make it a momentary switch, so it can't stay on.  Lift your finger and the switch goes off.

[Graeme H Burvill]

Thanks a ton John, really appreciate it. Gunna try and isolate the problem tomorrow, see about getting a new switch if thats where it is.

[Remi Raymond]

Very odd that it didn't bump start Graeme, my only thought is maybe when you tried bump starting it simply wasn't rolling fast enough/you gave up to soon?

Otherwise the only common issue I can think of would be ignition related.

*cough*

 

 I realize that all of this troubleshooting was completely necessary, but I'm not above simply saying "I was right" for the lulz.

[Graeme H Burvill]

So testing the ignition switch, i am getting power to the correct wires past the connector. There are 9 wires, the bigger main power wire which is red and a smaller violet wire are where i am supposed to see power. Both are good. I still don't know what could be wrong,. though i dont think i tested the body side of the connector with power to it...which would mean i really didnt test the switch just the wiring coming into it. Better go back and test more...brb!

[Graeme H Burvill]

now i see it wants me to test the switch with no power, would that mean it wants me to do a resistance test? If they test good on both sides of the connector, would that not indicate continuity? I'm so confuzed, but i feel like im getting closer.

[Graeme H Burvill]

So currently the ignition does not activate the starter, though i get power to the starter and the switch, as well as I get no spark. The switch is connected to both the coil and the starter. Its gotta be the switch right? Im gunna cry soon, really need to get my car back on the road.

When i jump the starter i get a shitty whirring noise as if the starter is actually doing something, but i get no noise from the engine doing anything. Even if i had no spark I would still hear the crank/piston assembly moving wouldn't I?

[Richard Steger]

Well, I'm no journeyman or even apprentice mechanic, but if you're bypassing the ignition switch and you hear the starter motor spinning but not turning over the engine, doesn't that point to a faulty solenoid or faulty mechanism that moves the starter gear to mesh with the flywheel (depending on the design of the bimmer starter)?  Just a logical idea thrown out there...