Turbo upgrade for a daily driver?

[Alex Pakhotin]

I'm thinking about upgrading the turbo, but don't want to go too big as it's just to have more fun during normal driving, so I need something that spools up as quickly as or even quicker than the stock turbo.
As far as I understand one pretty standard choice would be EvoIII 16g. RTM Racing has OEM Big 16g, and a cheap "copy" of 16g. How good or bad is it?
Seems like another option is Garrett T-28.
What would be the best bang for the buck these days?

Found this Garrett Big T28 on eBay. Is it a good deal? The most interesting thing is: the seller is here - in Richmond, BC! Does anybody know anything about that "IWT racing development INC"? Do they have a local store?

[Robert Vorley]

Big 28 is a good upgrade. I haven't heard of that vendor.

I ran one for awhile and it did have more pep, but it didn't really alleviate the complete lack of top end power that a stockish car has which I found frustrating on my daily hwy commute. Around town it was fun though.

What supporting mods have you done so far?

I would lean towards the hta68 as has already been discussed in similar threads. It offers excellent response and power potential, but it isn't cheap.

[Alex Pakhotin]

Big 28 is a good upgrade. I haven't heard of that vendor.

I ran one for awhile and it did have more pep, but it didn't really alleviate the complete lack of top end power that a stockish car has which I found frustrating on my daily hwy commute. Around town it was fun though.

I've found that stock is not too frustrating for me on a highway. Of course it would be nice to have top end power as well, but it's impossible to get it on both ends, as far as I understand. Increasing power on higher RPMs usually means a bigger slower spooling turbo, doesn't it?

Sounds like FP Big 28 is good. How is it different from Garrett T28? And it's already quite expensive. I'm new to all this stuff, so prices around and above $1000 scare me.

What supporting mods have you done so far?

Not many: at the moment I have Injen intake, rewired fuel pump, MBC, boost gauge, and Evo III BOV. That actually would be my next question: what supporting mods do I need?
I'm guessing I'll need an exhaust. Was thinking about some 2.5" catback, as I wanted to keep the noise level down, but it seems like now they are difficult to find. There are some 3" ones available, so I guess that's the way to go. Any recommendations, BTW? I'll probably go with anything that I'll find for a reasonable price, for example this, or just something cheaper from eBay.
Do I need downpipe and any mods in the engine department?

I would lean towards the hta68 as has already been discussed in similar threads. It offers excellent response and power potential, but it isn't cheap.

Yes, noted that. I read the "New turbo thoughts" thread, but it discusses bigger turbos, I got an impression 68HTA is a step up from 16G, isn't it? Does it give a wider range of usable torque? How is it compared to the stock turbo on the lower end?

[Robert Vorley]

Follow the upgrade paths, eliminating back pressure in a turbo system is a good idea. For your goals the 2.5 exhaust is a good choice.

Yes there is a relationship between response and power and generalizations must by there definition miss the exception but in general larger turbos will require a higher working rpm range or more displacement (think stroker) to operate where they are most efficient and responsive.     

Since your priority is response you may want to establish a target hp. That way you can choose the most responsive turbo for your power goal without going too small. Since making a smaller turbo work hard will generate more heat and wear on the turbo and motor (higher boost) .

Forced Performance uses custom wheel combinations compared with Garrett. Garrett has some good info on their site that explains how to pick a turbo, etc. The hta68 out flows the 16g with similar spool and can operate at a higher pr (boost level).

[Matt Vangaalen]

I went with the big 28 from fp. It bolts up to your stock manifold and o2 housing so you will save money there. I don't do much hiway driving with it. I love it around town though. As for boost I am still running stock and am happy. I'm about to throw in my pump and injector upgrades and bring the boost to 20. That said things will start getting real hot though but this is the path I've chosen so far.

[Alex Pakhotin]

Follow the upgrade paths, eliminating back pressure in a turbo system is a good idea. For your goals the 2.5 exhaust is a good choice.

It would be, but apparently they are not manufactured anymore.
I asked Ziggy at RTM Racing about the 2.5" exhaust, he replied that can bring one, but that will be a special order, will cost $600 for a catback plus $400 for the downpipe.
This is not an option for me.
So it seems like 3" is the only choice. Though I read it's a bit too much for such a relatively mild upgrade that I'm planning, and may even make things worse in terms of turbo and throttle responsiveness. Can you comment on this?

Yes there is a relationship between response and power and generalizations must by there definition miss the exception but in general larger turbos will require a higher working rpm range or more displacement (think stroker) to operate where they are most efficient and responsive.     

Since your priority is response you may want to establish a target hp. That way you can choose the most responsive turbo for your power goal without going too small. Since making a smaller turbo work hard will generate more heat and wear on the turbo and motor (higher boost) .

I definitely don't want to kill the turbo and motor, so I'm not planning to go crazy with the boost and other stuff. My original goal was 300 BHP, but if I can achieve more without huge investments and big sacrifice in the responsiveness, that's better of course.
How many horses approximately can I get with a turbo like 16g, T28, or HTA68 at 15-18 PSI?

Forced Performance uses custom wheel combinations compared with Garrett. Garrett has some good info on their site that explains how to pick a turbo, etc. The hta68 out flows the 16g with similar spool and can operate at a higher pr (boost level).

Well, if HTA68 is that good, I may go with it then. As I understand, it's a simple bolt-on, does not need any porting? What mods will it require?

[Robert Vorley]

3" is ok, plus you won't have to upgrade if your ambitions grow.  The only downside is that you may experience boost creep.  Porting the wastegate can help.

Related thread@ http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/402611-2-5-3-turbo-back.html

Reducing back pressure will improve your spool and throttle response.

Your target of 300 hp is at the wheels or flywheel?  Kevin D's car runs the eiii16g and he has 300whp, check out his supporting mods for an idea of what is necessary to get there.  All three turbos can get you there: t28-challenge, 16-easier, 68-no sweat. You might get to 300fwhp by 18psi depending on your supporting mods.

[CamWeiss]

One of the guys in Victoria used to have a big28 on his 1g. If I recall, it was close to 300whp. Very responsive.

[Matt Vangaalen]

Forced Performance says a possible 360.

[kevin derhouson]

Forced Performance says a possible 360.

crank hp

you'll need fmic, injectors (or meth or both) pump, fuel reg,exhaust, boost control of some sort.
management (safc,link,aem) clutch (act2100, spec2)
cams likely (hks 264,comp 100)
head studs aren't a bad idea...
expect boost creep, be prepared to possibly go external.
poly motor mounts are not optional for you with FWD or you'll likely pooch your tranny/dif.
i got wheel hop with a properly stiff suspension, poly mounts cured it.. and thats AWD, FWD im sure would be horrendous.

[Robert Vorley]

One of the guys in Victoria used to have a big28 on his 1g. If I recall, it was close to 300whp. Very responsive.

Can you remember what psi and dyno it was measured with?  

Check out these specs: 348 HP and 376 ft/lbs of torque @24psi (dynojet)  http://farnorthracing.com/car.html

[Alex Pakhotin]

Your target of 300 hp is at the wheels or flywheel?

I wanted to start with a relatively mild increase. The stock engine is 210 HP (FWHP? Crank HP?), I planned to increase that to around 300. I believe it comes to about 240-250 WHP, right?

[Alex Pakhotin]

you'll need fmic, injectors (or meth or both) pump, fuel reg,exhaust, boost control of some sort.
management (safc,link,aem) clutch (act2100, spec2)
cams likely (hks 264,comp 100)
head studs aren't a bad idea...

Wow! That's quite a lot of mods. Are all of them required?
I see you are at 24 PSI. What if my plan is to keep it below 20?
I actually did not expect that I'd need all that. I think for now I'll be fine with below 300 whp, does this lower goal simplify things?

expect boost creep, be prepared to possibly go external.

I don't like this predictions about the boost creep.  What will be the easiest solution? Waste-gate porting or an external waste-gate? Who can help me to fix that? Any recommendations?

poly motor mounts are not optional for you with FWD or you'll likely pooch your tranny/dif.
i got wheel hop with a properly stiff suspension, poly mounts cured it.. and thats AWD, FWD im sure would be horrendous.

Mine is AWD. Does it make this optional?

Are those shops mentioned on the forum, still work with DSM? It would be better for me just to leave the car to the professionals. I'm not planning to install all the upgrades myself anyway, so maybe the same guys who will be helping with this, could iron out the related issues. Maybe I should start my journey with a visit to Racing Greed - have a run on their dyno, and ask about their recommendations?

[Kevin Klapwijk]

I've been pretty happy with my small 16G and 15 PSI... I know Merlin would say go 20G!

[Richard Steger]

If you don't have time, tools, garage and wrenching knowlegde or experience (or a strong desire to learn yourself and alot of patience), and you have the money, Racing Greed won't let you down.  They have the only AWD chassis dyno in lower mainland, I believe.  That being said, have you done your homework? http://www.buschurracing.com/dsm-stage0.htm  http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm

As recently discussed, there are more modern turbo designs available now than those mentioned in these threads but ... how much do you want to spend?

Regardless of what mods you decide on and who installls them, a dyno tune at RG is necessary to get full benefit.  Even a knowledgeable software tuner can't do as good a job on the road as on a dyno.

Oh and the more you mod, the more you should have a different daily driver car.