Turbo upgrade for a daily driver?

[Jordan Kruger]

Yup. No matter what path you go, dyno tuning is the best invested money and its often overlooked. Its easy to bolt things on without truly understanding the parts, their function, and the affect is has on other components.
Like all the parts Kevin mentioned earlier. They are not all necessary..   But anyone who knows turbochargers knows that you need to cool the intake temperatures that a larger turbo creates... leading to a front mount intercooler (or other method)...   Then you need to supports boost with fuel...  and suddenly your hp goals are a little higher than you had anticipated. that leads to you buying a larger fuel pump, line, and injectors....   then you need to set the boost pressure somehow,   so you buy a boost controller... Now you need to make the best out of a whack load of fuel and air...   meaning you invest in a method to tune the car to run your car efficiently within its boundaries.....


 Take it to RG      they will tune it and give ya tips..  and your off to the races.

Point is, you dont need everything...  but when you start seeing the restrictions in your car and start resolving them,   you make more power ...


And these cars like power.

[Alex Pakhotin]

If you don't have time, tools, garage and wrenching knowlegde or experience (or a strong desire to learn yourself and alot of patience), and you have the money, Racing Greed won't let you down.  They have the only AWD chassis dyno in lower mainland, I believe.

Yes, I was planning to go there for sure before doing any major upgrades, and after, of course - to see the real measurable progress. Actually I should have done that before any upgrades, but it's better late than never.

That being said, have you done your homework? http://www.buschurracing.com/dsm-stage0.htm  http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm

Yes, I did some read in my spare time, now re-reading that, and checking new info, though don't remember these specific links. Thanks! Here's another useful link with an upgrade path description, which I found helpful.
I'm following those routes, my goal is basically the Stage 1 from your first link - I'm not planning to make a race car.
I've got those first cheap mods, now it's turn for the exhaust, and after that it seems the car should be basically ready for a bigger turbo, which I hope will give the most noticeable increase in power. At the moment I'm planning to stop there.

As recently discussed, there are more modern turbo designs available now than those mentioned in these threads but ... how much do you want to spend?

Not much really. I'm on a budget, and my default budget for this project is $0.
$1000 is about the maximum that I'm ready to squeeze out for a turbo.

Regardless of what mods you decide on and who installls them, a dyno tune at RG is necessary to get full benefit.  Even a knowledgeable software tuner can't do as good a job on the road as on a dyno.

Yep. I agree, and it's on my TODO list.

Oh and the more you mod, the more you should have a different daily driver car.

Well, that's where I've actually drawn a border. I want to keep this car as my daily driver (well, "every other day" or even "occasional" to be precise . That's why I want to keep the mods to a minimum.

[Ryan Singh]

Big T28's been good to me. I got mine back in Jan of 2008...went to that from the stock T25.

Felt better right away, more responsive and I've been told that you can get 400+ out of a Big T28 with fairly moderate mods.

I paid $908 brand new for mine, also from a Richmond Vendor...Exotic Motorsports IIRC, I can dig up the guy's number if you want.

[Alex Pakhotin]

Big T28's been good to me. I got mine back in Jan of 2008...went to that from the stock T25.

Hey! I was just looking for someone with recent experience with T28! You might be the one who could answer my questions, and it's a good timing! Yesterday I spent basically the whole day reading DSMTuners and a lot of other stuff. I'm actually seriously considering Garrett Big T28. It seems to be one of the cheapest turbos available right now, though "cheapest" means under $1000. 16G was the best-bang-for-the-buck when it was around $500, but now when it costs around $1500 (with install kit), IMHO it doesn't make sense (and I'm a bit hesitant to go with Chinese copies, which sell for around $200). I'm thinking about 68HTA as well, but it's $1200-1500, and apparently needs the install kit like a 16G, so again comes to around $1500 or even more. Is it 1.5 times better than T28? For my goals - I'm not sure. Seems like it's better at the higher RPMs, but I'm more interested in the lower band.

I like that T28 is bolt-on (easier to install and no additional parts, so a bit less chance to break), looks like stock, and should be reliable as the stock Garrett. I also read that T28 spools a bit faster than 16G/68HTA.

Why did you choose Big T28 over the others? By the way, is yours original Garrett or FP?

Felt better right away, more responsive and I've been told that you can get 400+ out of a Big T28 with fairly moderate mods.

Yes, there still will be some space to grow.

Good to hear it's more responsive - that's what I'm looking for. But what kind of responsiveness are you talking about: does it kick in at as low RPM as the stock and pulls better after? Have you noticed any difference in turbo lag?

I tried to find any dyno graphs to compare T28 with other turbos, but most of the images are not available anymore, as the discussions were long time ago, many DSM sites are already dead. Also most dynos are for 400+ whp monsters running at 20+ PSI, which is quite a bit different from what I have atm.

I paid $908 brand new for mine, also from a Richmond Vendor...Exotic Motorsports IIRC, I can dig up the guy's number if you want.

That would be helpful, thanks!
I've found on eBay another local vendor, who sells Big T28 as well. ZTL Motorsports - they are in Surrey.
I wonder if those vendors allow local pick-up. It'd be much easier for me (and a bit cheaper of course) just to come there.

[Robert Vorley]

Also most dynos are for 400+ whp monsters running at 20+ PSI, which is quite a bit different from what I have atm.

How do you know how much hp you have now?      

A Dyno is merely a tool that is used to quantify and validate power output in a replicable fashion.  A dyno graph can tell you much more than just a peak number.  Compared with a street tune, it offers consistency while also providing a safe legal environment to do third, fourth or fifth gear pulls to red line, repeatedly.      

My experience at RG's has taught me that many people grossly overestimate their car's actual hp.   Some "business minded" types have realized that customers expect big numbers so they are only too happy to offer inflated dyno results to stroke the owners ego.  Rg's dyno offers the assurance that your numbers will be higher everywhere else. LOL
                  

[Alex Pakhotin]

Also most dynos are for 400+ whp monsters running at 20+ PSI, which is quite a bit different from what I have atm.

How do you know how much hp you have now?

It was measured at RG. And I know how much a stock car has - mine is not far from that.
What I meant was that in my case there will be less mods and lower boost compared to 400+ whp cars (take yours for example), so I guess the behavior of the turbo will be different.

A Dyno is merely a tool that is used to quantify and validate power output in a replicable fashion.  A dyno graph can tell you much more than just a peak number.  Compared with a street tune, it offers consistency while also providing a safe legal environment to do third, fourth or fifth gear pulls to red line, repeatedly.

Absolutely agree.

My experience at RG's has taught me that many people grossly overestimate their car's actual hp.   Some "business minded" types have realized that customers expect big numbers so they are only too happy to offer inflated dyno results to stroke the owners ego.  Rg's dyno offers the assurance that your numbers will be higher everywhere else. LOL

Yeah, I was told their dyno shows much lower numbers. But even taking a different multiplier into account, my results are a bit too low. It showed 139 awhp, which is only about 185 hp at the crank - that's 25 hp less than stock! I expected a tad more than stock - with the intake and slightly increased boost, so it was not a pleasant surprise.

[Robert Vorley]

Good on you for getting a base power figure to build upon.  You should post up your results.         

Your power does seem down a bit, any basic maintenance stuff required?  Afr's good still?

[Alex Pakhotin]

Your power does seem down a bit, any basic maintenance stuff required?  Afr's good still?

Looks like it's running rich: AFR drops to ~10 at 3000rpm and then continues declining to 9.4 at 7000.

I had an error before: P0170 ("Fuel trim bank 1"). It might be related, though it hasn't appeared recently, so I hoped it was just something temporary, but apparently there are still some problems there.

[daniel Dee]

Budget!!!
Buy a used exhaust system for cheap,,,use a test pipe to replace the cat..
get an used bolt on turbo (Big28) or if new get a FP.
Instead of buying larger injectors etec.
Buy a good meth system....(use the meth to boost your stock fuel system and to cool your intake temp)

Tune!  Tune! Tune!  Tune!  Tune!
Let RG tune for the best HP for the parts above.

 

[Matt Vangaalen]

FP has a few 76HTA's left for 1000 check it out.

[Alex Pakhotin]

FP has a few 76HTA's left for 1000 check it out.

Thanks, but seems like it's too big for my goals. I'd like to keep a quick spool, and don't want too many mods. Sounds like this turbo would move the power band to higher RPMs, and allow to reach more than 300 whp. This is not what I have in mind.

[Matt Vangaalen]

Then do what I did Big 28.

[Alex Pakhotin]

Then do what I did Big 28.

This is exactly my plan!
I wonder though how different are FP Big 28 and Garrett Big T28. Tried to search all the forums, but still haven't got a definite answer. Some say they are basically the same, others - that FP is better.

[Matt Vangaalen]

FP all the way and don't be cheap and not get it ported like I did now I've gotta do it myself to match their exaust manifold I just bought.

[Alex Pakhotin]

FP all the way and don't be cheap and not get it ported like I did now I've gotta do it myself to match their exaust manifold I just bought.

What does the porting do? Increases the flow? Are there any drawbacks?